Day Two

Blog entry posted by Lotusbridge, Jul 18, 2015.

In Europa Bedford oppidum parvum Britanniae quoque[x]prope fluvius magnus est.

Bedford est parvum in Europa oppidum Brittanum fluvio magno propinquum. - Thanks PP!

Use of dative for fluvio see SP para 143.
Lotusbridge

About the Author

Learning Latin, collecting, by accident, old Latin schoolbooks. Taking it slow. Posting a daily hand-made Latin sentence for practice. It may be wrong but I'm trying :) ēāūōī
  1. Pacifica
    You're welcome. It'll get better with practice.
  2. Lotusbridge
    Thank you so much. Latin at the moment seems to be like being in a rowing boat on a very rough sea; no stabilty, no effective propulsion. :)
  3. Pacifica
    "Propinquum" is an adjective agreeing with "oppidum", yes. "Why does it go at the end": well, it's just one of several possible word orders in Latin.
  4. Lotusbridge
    Still looking. I am currently thinking that 'fluvio magno' means a river of great size [ablative of quality]- belay that -rejected.

    Propinquus/a/um [adj] takes the dative fluvio magno [ido].

    Still trying to understand its case and position.
    Edit -
    Thanks for your reply. Sorry was researching for a long time and missed it.
    It is true, my initial sentences did not indicate that the river flowed through the town. To indicate that is curently beyond me :)

    So, have I got this correct? The adj propinquum is in the nom agreeing with the implied subject oppidum/Bedford. If it was a villa near the river it would be propinqua? And, lastly, if so, why does it go at the end?

    Do these make sense?
    Oppidum villae propinquum est.
    Villa oppido propinqua est.
    Oppidum est propinquum villae.
    Villa est propinqua oppido.
    For 'the town (villa) is near a villa (town)'.
  5. Pacifica
    Adjectives describing size have a tendency to come before the noun more often than other adjectives, it's true, but it isn't an absolute rule eiter. On the whole, adjective placement is free. "Parvum oppidum" and "oppidum parvum" are both ok.

    My placement of "in europa": when a prepositional phrase is used to describe something like an adjective would, in classical Latin it's more often than not "sandwiched" between a noun and an adjective. "A small town in Europe": "parvum in Europa oppidum"; "my love for you": "amor erga te meus"... Things like that. I suppose it's more like a strong tendency than an absolute rule.

    In "fluvio magno propinquum", "fluvio magno" is dative. Literally "close to a big river".

    "The river actually flows through the town. Would this change the comstructions?"

    Well, one could think of several ways of saying or implying more exactly that the river flows through the town; but your English sentences I was translating don't really indicate it's the case.

    Just as an example:

    Bedford est parvum in Europa oppidum Brittanum, per quod fluit fluvius magnus.
    "Bedford is a small British town in Europe, through which flows a big river."
  6. Lotusbridge
    Ah, Thank you. Some of your constructions are a little beyond my experience (propinquum is a new vocabulary for me) but I see that I should prefer to use British as an adjective rather than a noun in the possessive.

    I had discerned from LL that the size descriptor of a noun seems to go before the noun (and post-noun adjectival description) but I am still thinking in English and translating by the looks of my attempts as I failed to remember to change the word order. Should 'in Europe' come before 'oppidum Brittanum' beacuse the geography of Europe encloses the land of Brittania?

    I understand 'prope fluvium magnum' (covered in the LL chapters that I have done so far, prope as preposition taking accusative) but not construction 'fluvio magno [ablative?] propinquum [adjective?]. I have been looking on the net :)

    The river actually flows through the town. Would this change the constructions?

    I see that etiam is a better word than quoque (also = more info related to previous statement rather than also = as well as relating sort of to actions)
  7. Pacifica
    Ah, ok.

    "Bedford oppidum parvum Brittaniae in Europa est. Bedford prope fluvium magnum est" makes sense grammatically. :)

    Otherwise, here's how I would personally translate your two English versions:

    Bedford is a small British town in Europe near a big river.
    Bedford est parvum in Europa oppidum Brittanum fluvio magno propinquum.

    Bedford is a small British town in Europe. It is also near a big river.
    Bedford est parvum in Europa oppidum Brittanum. Est etiam fluvio magno propinquum OR prope fluvium magnum.
  8. Lotusbridge
    Ok, I am mangling the language :)

    Bedford is a small British town in Europe near a big river.
    Or, Bedford is a small British town in Europe. It is also near a big river.
    Bedford oppidum parvum Brittaniae in Europa est. Bedford prope fluvium magnum est.
  9. Pacifica
    "quoque does not have the 'also' meaning"

    What do you mean? "Quoque" does means "also", "too".

    "Bedford oppidum parvam Brittaniam in Europa prope fluvius magnus est."

    This doesn't make sense. Could you please tell me in English what you're exactly trying to say?
  10. Lotusbridge
    Thank you for taking time to write feedback, Pacis Puella. I struggle with the productive side of any language and hence speak and write very little of any. This I am trying to redress by getting into the habit of daily Latin sentences, mistakes notwithstanding, attempting to generate my own not just copy.

    Perhaps this might say more what I intended as quoque does not have the 'also' meaning I had mentally attributed to it from Lingua Latina - Familia Romana.

    Bedford oppidum parvam Brittaniam in Europa prope fluvius magnus est.

 

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