when did latin die?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Member

Location:
Sioux City, Iowa.
Why should the Bible not be translated into AAVE? While calling it the "Black Bible Chronicles" presumes that it would aid all black people in understanding the Bible, which is obviously untrue, if the content communicates effectively (though I do not claim to know much about this translation specifically), why should this content not exist? What is the purpose of language if not effective communication? Judging one language or dialect as superior to another seems a terribly subjective endeavor, and one more likely to manifest classism or regional chauvinism than have any productive outcome. Languages indeed evolve, and as they do, they manifest different parts of the human experience. I consider language one of the greatest separations between man and beast, if one is to make such a separation. It is too integral to our human identity for us to say that one language is better than another.
Thus, while I, as well as other members of this forum, enjoy Latin and find that it is beneficial in all sorts of ways in studies and in growth as a person, I do not consider it as necessary a language as more common ones in our day and age. I think that people should learn whatever language or languages they need for other activities, and then they should learn whatever language or languages they want to for pleasure and to increase their understanding of the world. Study of Latin entails and intimate connection with Roman culture and history that opens a new world to the student of Latin, but the same is true for all of the thousands of languages parts of our species speak or have spoken. I believe that everyone should be made aware of benefits of the study of Latin and materials and instruction should be available, but that this should be true for as many languages as possible. Study of Latin is wonderful, but should not be required in schools, should be encouraged but should not be forced.

I am inclined to disagree. Latin, I still say, gives us the key to our patrimony as the heirs of Western Civilisation. Greek does so as well. Understandably, the average student has neither the time nor the interest to do two languages, plus a foreign language, plus English.

However, it is entirely possible, by lengthening the school day by an hour, to insist that students get, along with English and a foreign language of their choice, Latin. I choose Latin over Greek because there IS a need for it, contrary to my friend Gaia's position. And Latin, unlike Greek, is a bit easier to learn since the alphabet is the same. Also, the grammar helps one learn any Romance language with ease, and virtually any European language, including English, the only exceptions being possibly Basque, Finnish, and Magyar.

What is the need for Latin? Simple: to build a more civilised, more cultured society. We are, at least in the USA, turning more and more into a nation of Couch Potato Blobs. All most Americans do is sit on their fat tuchuses watching football, putting on the pounds while eating Ho-Hos and Dingdongs and drinking beer. With Latin, we can be a nation of readers, studying everything from the Gallic Wars to Virgil. IN THE ORIGINAL LATIN! Who wouldn't want to do that!
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
All most Americans do is sit on their fat tuchuses watching football, putting on the pounds while eating Ho-Hos and Dingdongs and drinking beer.
I'd say, if it's what they like to do, what's the problem with it? Well, their health, maybe. But my point is that not everyone is forced to like the same things as you.
Who wouldn't want to do that!
I'd say a greeeeaaat many people.
 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Member

Location:
Sioux City, Iowa.
But see, if you educated them early on in Latin, from their early, formative years, you could influence them to like something more that football, ho-hos, dingdongs, and beers.
 

Hawkwood

.

  • Civis

But see, if you educated them early on in Latin, from their early, formative years, you could influence them to like something more that football, ho-hos, dingdongs, and beers.
This could be said for most educational subjects away from the cult of celebrity and sport but I am with you on this one in the sense of Latin having a benefit to the curriculum. I mean, I've learned quite a lot about English grammar in a general sense since undertaking Latin but I just can't see it breaking into the school system again. Claudilla stated that Latin is being taught to pupils in English secondary schools but I'm unaware of this development and was under the impression from Michael Gove's demotion, that Latin and classical studies are not even on the table for consideration let alone as a choice subject for pupils to pursue. I suppose some would say that if anything, it belongs in the realms of further education.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Am I the only American who doesn't know what a ho-ho or dingdong is?
 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Member

Location:
Sioux City, Iowa.
Probably. Both are store-bought confections made by the same people who used to make (or possibly the company who currently makes) Twinkies. They are grotesquely unhealthy for you, like Twinkies, because, aside from the sugar, they are chock-full of preservatives and other processed crap that does horrific things to your internals.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Grand Rapids, Michigan

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Grand Rapids, Michigan
I too aſſumed that they were rude expreſſions for unmentionable body parts.:confused:

You're thinking of 'hoohoo' and 'dong'. They are rather unsettlingly similar sounding, though.
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
I watched that Gangnam video; that's 3 minutes of my life I'll never get back lol..but it was amusing! I prefer clavichord music but then my parents shielded me from popular culture and took me to concerts and the opera.

Here is a link to the UK Iris Project..an excellent enterprise: http://irisproject.org.uk/index.php/resources
 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Member

Location:
Sioux City, Iowa.
I rather doubt that.

Anyway, I have of course heard of Twinkies, but I find them completely unappetizing.
I did not intend that to be insulting. But most people have indeed heard of them. And yes, Twinkies are unappetising, as are Ho-Hos and Ding-Dongs.

Gangnam Style was pointless. And, as I said, entirely inappropriate from an Orthodox Jewish point of view. But amusing, yes, I think would be accurate.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Just "Google-imaged" Twinkies, Ho-Hos and Ding-Dongs. I'm hungry now, especially after the last one.
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
Actually I just read that Gangnam was a critique on soulless mass-consumption, something quite appropriate and which the Roman addressed as well, and this is a Latin forum not one catering to people's religious sensibilities...Lucian was very wicked and droll...

Pacis puella stay away from that stuff! my parents would never let me thank goodness and I believe 1/3 of the population of the US is obese. I'd love for children to be instructed in good old Roman values of frugality, temperance etc..
 
 

Bestiola

Nequissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Sacerdos Isidis

Lol yes, the Romans of Late Republic and Empire were true embodiment of chastity, frugality and temperance by all accounts...especially the emperors.


Also, the grammar helps one learn any Romance language with ease, and virtually any European language, including English, the only exceptions being possibly Basque, Finnish, and Magyar.
It doesn't help one bit with Slavic languages, sorry to disappoint you.
 

Hawkwood

.

  • Civis

Actually I just read that Gangnam was a critique on soulless mass-consumption, something quite appropriate and which the Roman addressed as well, and this is a Latin forum not one catering to people's religious sensibilities...Lucian was very wicked and droll...

Pacis puella stay away from that stuff! my parents would never let me thank goodness and I believe 1/3 of the population of the US is obese. I'd love for children to be instructed in good old Roman values of frugality, temperance etc..
Completely off topic but my mate's daughter has been diagnosed with diabetes at the age of *10* and she has to have "4 injections everyday for the rest of her life". I couldn't believe this was the case, he also told me that the health visitor who comes out to see her said that the numbers being diagnosed with these type health issues are increasing every year. I was giving my little lad chocolate most days after his tea and sometimes after his dinner as well but I've now stopped this since learning about diabetes. He now has chocolate only a few times a week. It's been a nightmare to enforce as everyone gives him sweets but I just can't risk it, it seems junk food is causing mayhem with kids health here in the UK. Apologies for the digression.
 
 

Bestiola

Nequissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Sacerdos Isidis

Completely off topic but my mate's daughter has been diagnosed with diabetes at the age of *10* and she has to have "4 injections everyday for the rest of her life". I couldn't believe this was the case, he also told me that the health visitor who comes out to see her said that the numbers being diagnosed with these type health issues are increasing every year. I was giving my little lad chocolate most days after his tea and sometimes after his dinner as well but I've now stopped this since learning about diabetes. He now has chocolate only a few times a week. It's been a nightmare to enforce as everyone gives him sweets but I just can't risk it, it seems junk food is causing mayhem with kids health here in the UK. Apologies for digression.
Well you can offer him dark chocolate if he still craves it:

Cocoa has also been shown to improve insulin sensitivity, which Pereira points out could be a related mechanism—both getting a boost from the polyphenols, the antioxidants in cocoa. Research published earlier this year in Endocrine Abstracts showed that polyphenols in chocolate improved insulin sensitivity even in people who did not have diabetes. Adults consumed 20 grams of either polyphenol-rich or polyphenol-poor dark chocolate. Those with the extra polyphenol boost showed better insulin sensitivity after just a month. "The results imply that dark chocolate might delay or prevent the onset of diabetes and prediabetes," says Farhat, who led the work.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-dark-chocolate-good-for-you-thank-your-microbes/
 
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