when did latin die?

Hawkwood

.

  • Civis

Good one. You know I've never tried him with hot chocolate.

Here is a link to the UK Iris Project..an excellent enterprise: http://irisproject.org.uk/index.php/resources
Nice link Claudilla, I hope it gains momentum. I've only just had a little look but I'll have a proper look tonight.
 

Hawkwood

.

  • Civis

 

Bestiola

Nequissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Sacerdos Isidis

Lol, I love chilli but I've not introduced "shitbagz" to it yet. But I am feeling that idea in a big way so I'll try it myself a bit later with a hot choc. I actually have hot choc in the cupboard, as well as Cayenne chilli pepper. (-_-)
Hah, I don't think my own "shitbagz" would love it either :)/www.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/swytefirizvgcowi/p1/>

Well the modern version of the original recipe would be something along the lines of mixing water, unsweetened coffee, chilli and a bit of vanilla extract.

Too bad for the Romans that they didn't know about xocolatl.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Completely off topic but my mate's daughter has been diagnosed with diabetes at the age of *10* and she has to have "4 injections everyday for the rest of her life". I couldn't believe this was the case, he also told me that the health visitor who comes out to see her said that the numbers being diagnosed with these type health issues are increasing every year. I was giving my little lad chocolate most days after his tea and sometimes after his dinner as well but I've now stopped this since learning about diabetes. He now has chocolate only a few times a week. It's been a nightmare to enforce as everyone gives him sweets but I just can't risk it, it seems junk food is causing mayhem with kids health here in the UK. Apologies for the digression.
I heard recently on TV that here in Belgium the number of diabetes cases has doubled something like these last 10 or 15 years - I don't remember exactly, but DOUBLED, shit.
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
Hawkwood, my paternal grandmother had adult diabetes, my father was careful and never developed and neither have I. No fizzy drinks. Keep sweets and treats to once a week or 2 weeks and tell him not to eat them if others give them to him. I had only some kind of health type fig cookie as a child except for treat. And yes I have a horrible sweet tooth but I don't yield to it,I have dried fruit in my house (dates, figs). Junk food is ruining children's health in the US children's obesity and diabetes is off the chart due to foul diets of fast & junk food.

Yes, well strive for a Cato approaching attitude;)
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
And it's still happening to women across continents....Rome was quite civilized I'd take it any day over being a woman in developing countries.
 
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patronus

Location:
Varsovia
How the topic veered...
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
many slave women eventually could buy their freedom and then become citizens, they were bakers, dyers, fullers, hairdressers...they could own their property and even when slaves could marry other slaves and have children. The entire patron-client relationship. I think that's a better deal than being female in a lot of places, where there is sex slavery, no rights etc...
 
 

Bestiola

Nequissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Sacerdos Isidis

Hmmm:
Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution.
Estimates of the percentage of the population of Italy who were slaves range from 30 to 40 percent in the 1st century BC, upwards of two to three million slaves in Italy by the end of the 1st century BCE, about 35% to 40% of Italy's population. For the Empire as a whole, the slave population has been estimated at just under five million, representing 10 - 15% of the total population.
Within the empire, slaves were sold at public auction or sometimes in shops, or by private sale in the case of more valuable slaves. Slave dealing was overseen by the Roman fiscal officials called quaestors.
Sometimes slaves stood on revolving stands, and around each slave for sale hung a type of plaque describing his or her origin, health, character, intelligence, education, and other information pertinent to purchasers. Prices varied with age and quality, with the most valuable slaves fetching prices equivalent to thousands of today's dollars. Because the Romans wanted to know exactly what they were buying, slaves were presented naked. The dealer was required to take a slave back within six months if the slave had defects that were not manifest at the sale, or make good the buyer's loss.[44] Slaves to be sold with no guarantee were made to wear a cap at the auction.
According to Marcel Mauss, in Roman times the persona gradually became "synonymous with the true nature of the individual" but "the slave was excluded from it. servus non habet personam ("a slave has no persona"). He has no personality. He does not own his body; he has no ancestors, no name, no cognomen, no goods of his own."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome

So, cca 5 million people had no personal rights, were not even considered persons and were just meat to be used for whatever purpose. Sure, some might have been freed and even became rich, but those were only exceptions.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Hmmm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome

So, cca 5 million people had no personal rights, were not even considered persons and were just meat to be used for whatever purpose. Sure, some might have been freed and even became rich, but those were only exceptions.
Though I don't disagree with the rest of this, the interpretation of servus non habet personam to mean that the Romans thought slaves 'had no personality' or weren't persons (in the modern sense of 'human beings') isn't quite sound. It just means they had no legal standing. See § II.B.2.(γ) in Lewis & Short under persona for the relevant translation of the term: 'Law t. t., a being having legal rights and obligations' (and notice that definition (δ) is called 'rare').

This definition of 'person' is still relevant in modern legal context, as can be seen in the controversy over the term 'corporate personhood' in U.S. law. While the debate over what rights normally granted to natural persons should or should not also be granted to corporations is an important one, I've noticed there's a lot of misunderstanding by certain laymen who seem to think that the courts now consider corporations actual people, and wrongly believe that the idea of corporate personhood is something new.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Some at least were conscious they were humans and had to be treated as such:

Cum fueris proprios servos mercatus in usus,
Et famulos dicas, homines tamen esse memento.

Disticha Catonis.

Not to say that it was always the case...
 

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius

  • Technicus Auxiliarius

Location:
Torontum, Ontario, Canada
During Saturnalia, the role of slave and master were reversed.
 

Claudilla

Active Member

Location:
Chapel Hill, NC
please don't quote wikipedia....Actually until the British Married Woman's Property Act of 1882 women had no legal personality; a married woman was her husband's chattel via couverture.. And a 14 year old, brave Malala Yousafzai, gets shot by religious fantatics because she wishes an education and wins the Nobel Prize. So I'm not terribly impressed since this is about 2,000 years after Roman slavery.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
I don't think you've played much of a part. Anyway it's no big deal in my opinion. (And now we've at least come back to discussing things relating to the Romans, even if not to the question of when Latin died. Ding-Dongs and diabetes were farther off-topic. :D)
 
Top