Let us hear and analyse each other's Latin pronunciation
- Thread starter Godmy
- Start date
LOL. If you heard my Australian accent reading English, you would change your mindI think Cinefactus would sound great reading Ozymandias. I know this is slightly off-topic because it isn't Latin, but I'm thinking about it because I myself posted a recording of it yesterday (and already then I thought it would probably sound great if read by Cinefactus).
Thanks Godmy for all the work you put into this. I will try to curb my enthusiasm at 60 seconds in future!
Lots of great tips in your last set of comments Godmy. Thanks again
Another thing: it seems I mis-stressed perpetuum (it sounds like PER-pe-tu-um to me, while it should be per-PE-tu-um).
Yeah, it's difficult to keep everything in mind simultaneously.
I'll look at these later (+ I'll be checking later all the other threads ). I just wanted to write that it's been exactly 1 year since I started to submit oral feedbacks here.
It really relieved me of a tremendous pressure/the high standard I'd set for myself of what I wanted the feedback to be so it served some constructive purpose (not just patting one our backs) and I've seen an improvement in many people here who would try again and again. Maybe the only drawback of the oral feedback is that I don't do any vowel-length measuring in an audio editor to prove some point, I don't do nearly as many relistenings of individual parts, but... usually it's not necessary anyway Back then one criticism could take me 30-40 minutes to make and it wasn't nearly as much fun. Also I usually submit my posts full of some mistakes that I edit hours later and ... one just knows that an audio recording cannot be really so easily edited, the imperfection is counted with : P
I submitted 11 recordings/videos since then, but it's true that the thread has been silent for the past few months until recently.
). I just wanted to write that it's been exactly 1 year since I started to submit oral feedbacks here.It really relieved me of a tremendous pressure/the high standard I'd set for myself of what I wanted the feedback to be so it served some constructive purpose (not just patting one our backs) and I've seen an improvement in many people here who would try again and again. Maybe the only drawback of the oral feedback is that I don't do any vowel-length measuring in an audio editor to prove some point, I don't do nearly as many relistenings of individual parts, but... usually it's not necessary anyway
Back then one criticism could take me 30-40 minutes to make and it wasn't nearly as much fun. Also I usually submit my posts full of some mistakes that I edit hours later and ... one just knows that an audio recording cannot be really so easily edited, the imperfection is counted with : PI submitted 11 recordings/videos since then, but it's true that the thread has been silent for the past few months until recently.
I have since learned that this pronunciation of "nuit" with a plain "w" sound is a peculiarity of Belgian French. So I do pronounce it that way, and I knew what I was doing, in that particular case anyway.
 Tongue.gif "(1) Tongue out :p")
The Wiki article on Belgian French says:
Something a bit different Trying to practice distributive numerals & multiplicatives by doing the 2x tables.
I would be very interested in any comments regarding grammar / pronunciation or the like
Trying to practice distributive numerals & multiplicatives by doing the 2x tables.I would be very interested in any comments regarding grammar / pronunciation or the like
It's interesting, I'm not sure I can react to it, it's kind of partially singing... Maybe I would need a transcription time to time. I would try to work on that "r" probably... Sometimes unaspirate the initial stops, etc.
Anyway, thanks for the contribution!
Maybe I would need a transcription time to time. I would try to work on that "r" probably... Sometimes unaspirate the initial stops, etc.Anyway, thanks for the contribution!
What do you think would be a good passage to practise on? You have also mentioned problems with 't's and 'q's...
Hmm... really no idea You can try some of the proposed text in the first post maybe, who knows. Maybe something which is not poetry and not too long... The problem is usually is some overaspiration, sometimes "r", one time Italian phonology (in terms of random accent and random long vowels in some words where short should be). etc. Usually just some details like this...
You can try some of the proposed text in the first post maybe, who knows. Maybe something which is not poetry and not too long... The problem is usually is some overaspiration, sometimes "r", one time Italian phonology (in terms of random accent and random long vowels in some words where short should be). etc. Usually just some details like this...
Salvete Omnes.
I am new here and trying to work on my pronunciation, because (after a year's break) I am reacquainting myself with the language; I never bothered with pronunciation before and want to try and get it right this time. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated if anyone has the time
I feel a little bit like I am necro-posting, but this thread seems to be stickied so I assume that it is ok to post here?
I am new here and trying to work on my pronunciation, because (after a year's break) I am reacquainting myself with the language; I never bothered with pronunciation before and want to try and get it right this time. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated if anyone has the time
I feel a little bit like I am necro-posting, but this thread seems to be stickied so I assume that it is ok to post here?
It is ok, I wish more people posted!Salvete Omnes.
I am new here and trying to work on my pronunciation, because (after a year's break) I am reacquainting myself with the language; I never bothered with pronunciation before and want to try and get it right this time. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated if anyone has the time
I feel a little bit like I am necro-posting, but this thread seems to be stickied so I assume that it is ok to post here?
(forgive me, I don't have my best microphone at the moment at this computer.)
Btw. I feel you're a native English speaker, aren't you? : )
The response:
Thank you for the quick reply Godmy, it sounds like I mostly need to work on my consonant doubling (I think that's what it's called?) as well as making sure to properly pronounce the long vowels in non-stressed syllables, which I find very hard. And yes you are right I am British.It is ok, I wish more people posted!
(forgive me, I don't have my best microphone at the moment at this computer.)
Btw. I feel you're a native English speaker, aren't you? : )
The response:
I've got some trouble with that as well. I tend to either shorten them or wrongly stress the syllables.
Hello,
I chose the beginning of De Bello gallico for my recording because it seemed to be the most complex to read (being prose).
I am neither a phonetician nor a professional latinist ; please correct me if I made mistakes.
In my pronunciation :
- I make a difference of quality between e and ē, o and ō.
- I try to nasalize ending in am, um or em.
- I use elisions.
- I don’t pronounce the letter h.
- I pronounce qu and gu as kw and gw. (I have not tried yet to adopt better ways)
Prodelision of "est", elision of "a" in dīvīsa, because it is a short vowel.
Elision of "um" and "am", even though they are long (Vox latina says that there could be a contraction of the two vowels, that would be a bit nasalized, but I prefer to remove the first vowel altogether)
The i of "aliam" becomes a yod.
Allen thinks that ī is not elided and becomes a yod before a vowel (Galli’appellantur, Hi’omnēs). But before a i (as in quī ipsōrum) I merged the two vowels into a single ī. (It does not seem very consistent, but we do have mī and nīl from mihi and nihil)
As ī becomes yod, Allen seems to believe that ū becomes w where there is a hiatus. This passage is not easy to pronounce at first.
Allen thinks that ē and a are to be contracted.
This is the passage from Vox latina that helped me figuring out what to do with elisions :
I would especially be very interested in knowing what you all think about elisions and contractions. I have just started using them. I believe they do make the text easier to pronounce.
That’s it, thank you !
I chose the beginning of De Bello gallico for my recording because it seemed to be the most complex to read (being prose).
I am neither a phonetician nor a professional latinist ; please correct me if I made mistakes.
In my pronunciation :
- I make a difference of quality between e and ē, o and ō.
- I try to nasalize ending in am, um or em.
- I use elisions.
- I don’t pronounce the letter h.
- I pronounce qu and gu as kw and gw. (I have not tried yet to adopt better ways)
Prodelision of "est", elision of "a" in dīvīsa, because it is a short vowel.
Elision of "um" and "am", even though they are long (Vox latina says that there could be a contraction of the two vowels, that would be a bit nasalized, but I prefer to remove the first vowel altogether)
The i of "aliam" becomes a yod.
Allen thinks that ī is not elided and becomes a yod before a vowel (Galli’appellantur, Hi’omnēs). But before a i (as in quī ipsōrum) I merged the two vowels into a single ī. (It does not seem very consistent, but we do have mī and nīl from mihi and nihil)
As ī becomes yod, Allen seems to believe that ū becomes w where there is a hiatus. This passage is not easy to pronounce at first.
Allen thinks that ē and a are to be contracted.
(the ē from mercātōrēs sounds a bit short in the recording)
This is the passage from Vox latina that helped me figuring out what to do with elisions :
I would especially be very interested in knowing what you all think about elisions and contractions. I have just started using them. I believe they do make the text easier to pronounce.
That’s it, thank you !
> The i of "aliam" becomes a yod.
Why?
> I would especially be very interested in knowing what you all think about
> elisions and contractions.
I don’t care much about them. First of all, I believe they are characteristic of fluent natural speech, I’m not there yet. On the other hand, I don’t think the lack of elisions would be the greatest component of my overall accent. In theory, elisions are important for poetry, and I think that’s why so much attention is paid to them. I don’t care about poetry. (Does your textbook of Spanish mention synalepha at all?)
Not being a phonetician, I liked your recording very much. It’s clear and easy to understand and sounds neutral.
I think you tend to pronounce words separately, so that even when one ends in a consonant and the following starts with a vowel, there is a clear word boundary. This and slow overall pace make your vowel fusions seem somewhat artificial to me.
I’ve lived a few years in Portugal and I don’t sound like a Portuguese. Out of curiosity you could try to learn the pronunciation of a modern language from a textbook without recourse to recordings (my school years) and than estimate your accent. In the case of Latin recordings don’t exist. One of the things I like about Allen is his ‘if there is a slightest reason not to force it on yourself, don’t’ attitude.
Why?
> I would especially be very interested in knowing what you all think about
> elisions and contractions.
I don’t care much about them. First of all, I believe they are characteristic of fluent natural speech, I’m not there yet. On the other hand, I don’t think the lack of elisions would be the greatest component of my overall accent. In theory, elisions are important for poetry, and I think that’s why so much attention is paid to them. I don’t care about poetry.
(Does your textbook of Spanish mention synalepha at all?)Not being a phonetician, I liked your recording very much. It’s clear and easy to understand and sounds neutral.
I think you tend to pronounce words separately, so that even when one ends in a consonant and the following starts with a vowel, there is a clear word boundary. This and slow overall pace make your vowel fusions seem somewhat artificial to me.
I’ve lived a few years in Portugal and I don’t sound like a Portuguese. Out of curiosity you could try to learn the pronunciation of a modern language from a textbook without recourse to recordings (my school years
) and than estimate your accent. In the case of Latin recordings don’t exist. One of the things I like about Allen is his ‘if there is a slightest reason not to force it on yourself, don’t’ attitude.
Not knowing better, I figured that only am would be elided. Since there was still a hiatus, I thought making the i into a yod was the most natural way to deal with it.
However the small commentary was merely meant to be a description of what I believe my pronunciation is in the recording, and not to be normative.
You make a good point, this does sound a bit artificial. Especially cultū atque hūmānitāte -> culwaquumanitate and quārum ūnam incolunt -> quarunincolunt.
But I believe it’s because it is one of my first attempt, and I had to think about each elision/contraction before making them. With training the process would most certainly become natural/automatic.
In theory, elisions are important for poetry, and I think that’s why so much attention is paid to them. I don’t care about poetry.
Actually, I am not trying to use elision because of poetry, as neither do I care about it that much at the moment.
I have been exercising my pronunciation intensively for the last few months, and found that hiatus were preventing sentences from being fluid.
"in Italiā est" is indeed very tedious to pronounce without eliding the "e".
This is relevant since ancients used to read texts aloud, thus probably using elisions and contractions.
I have never used a Spanish textbook mentioning poetry (Do you think i’m Spanish ?). But after researching the word, it might qualify the way I said longissimē absunt.