de rebus bellicis

[Trevor John]

Hello, I'm trying to work my way through de rebus bellicis. What Latin I know I got from reading Nepos, so I hope someone knowledgeable in Late Latin might comment on my translation of the first sentence. Many thanks.

Caelesti semper instictu felicis rei publicae vestrae commoditas, sacratissimi principes, opportunis est suggerenda temporibus, ut divina consilia divinis successibus convalescant.

At all times at <your> heavenly instigation, most holy emperors, the <any> advantage of your fortunate republic must be suggested at opportune occasions in order that <your> divine counsels may grow stronger with divine successes.

 

[Adrian]

I underline - I don't know the whole text, nor have sufficient knowledge of medieval/church latin. I can only present following

Caelesti semper instictu felicis rei publicae vestrae commoditas, sacratissimi principes, opportunis est suggerenda temporibus, ut divina consilia divinis successibus convalescant.
Always Favorable by Heaven’s aptitude, thine republic’s benefit, the most sacred ones - “the heavy infantry”; the suggestions are fortunate for the time, so that divine plans grow strong by means of divine successes/outcomes.

 

[Trevor John]

I underline - I don't know the whole text, nor have sufficient knowledge of medieval/church latin. I can only present following

Caelesti semper instictu felicis rei publicae vestrae commoditas, sacratissimi principes, opportunis est suggerenda temporibus, ut divina consilia divinis successibus convalescant.
Always Favorable by Heaven’s aptitude, thine republic’s benefit, the most sacred ones - “the heavy infantry”; the suggestions are fortunate for the time, so that divine plans grow strong by means of divine successes/outcomes.

Thanks for your reply.

So the first words up to "principes" are equivalent to an honorific? That makes a lot more sense.

But wouldn't you say "opportunis est suggerenda temporibus, ut . . ." means "things that must be suggested at appropriate times <at times such as these> in order that . . . ? The context is that the author of the pamphlet wishes to offer a number of suggestions to the two emperors for improving the state and the army, believing it to be at dire risk.

 

[Dantius]

Caelesti semper instictu felicis rei publicae vestrae commoditas, sacratissimi principes, opportunis est suggerenda temporibus, ut divina consilia divinis successibus convalescant.

So the first words up to "principes" are equivalent to an honorific? That makes a lot more sense..

That doesn't seem correct to me. "commoditas" has to be the subject of the whole sentence, because "est suggerenda" agrees with it.
I would translate this as,
"Most sacred princes/emperors, the convenience of (i.e. things convenient/helpful for) your republic, happy always by divine/heavenly instigation, must be suggested at opportune times, so that divine plans gain strength by divine successes."

So "caelesti semper instinctu felicis" is a phrase, where "felicis" agrees with "rei publicae vestrae".

In medieval Latin, the plural is occasionally used as an honorific. So it could be that this is only addressed to one emperor, but the plural is used to honor him. Just like how a king/queen might refer to themselves by "we".

 

[Trevor John]

That doesn't seem correct to me. "commoditas" has to be the subject of the whole sentence, because "est suggerenda" agrees with it.
I would translate this as,
"Most sacred princes/emperors, the convenience of (i.e. things convenient/helpful for) your republic, happy always by divine/heavenly instigation, must be suggested at opportune times, so that divine plans gain strength by divine successes."

So "caelesti semper instinctu felicis" is a phrase, where "felicis" agrees with "rei publicae vestrae".

In medieval Latin, the plural is occasionally used as an honorific. So it could be that this is only addressed to one emperor, but the plural is used to honor him. Just like how a king/queen might refer to themselves by "we".

I did originally assume suggerenda agreed with commoditas but obviously I was wrong in attributing Caelesti semper instictu to the emperors rather than the republic. Thanks very much. Your translation is very elegant. By the way, according to the wiki page, at least, there may have been two emperors, but I take your point - I didn't know about the use of the plural in late Latin.

 

[Dantius]

You could interpret caelesti semper instinctu to the emperors and say that it goes with commoditas suggerenda est, meaning "by (your) heavenly instigation, the advantage/convenience must be suggested", but I think it's slightly more likely to refer to "felicis rei publicae" just because they're closer together.