Epigrams of Martial, Book 1, 115

[AVGVSTA]

I translated poem 115 from Book 1 of Martial's Epigrams and seek advice.

The original epigram:

115

Quaedam me cupit invide Procille
loto candidior puella cycno
argento nive lilio ligustro
sed quandam volo nocte nigriorem
formica pice graculo cicada. 5
Iam suspendia saeva cogitabas
si novi bene te Procille vives

Below is my translation:

A certain girl desires me -- be jealous, Procillus!
A girl more white than a bathed swan,
Silver, snow, lily, and privet
But I want a certain girl darker than night
Ant, tar, crow, and cicada
Now you were thinking of cruel means of hanging yourself
If I knew you well, Procillus, you will live.

----​

Firstly, I have two specific questions concerning the translation of 115



I. suspendia saeva
I had a hard time phrasing suspendia saeva into English. Suspendium, as defined by Whitaker's Words is the act of hanging oneself. Being unable to think of an English phrase that does not invoke verbal nouns(gerunds, participles, etc.), I face an awkward situation as saeva, cruel, is an adjective. If I were to conserve the full meaning of suspendium, then

a) cruel hangings
in which I ignored the suicidal nature of the supposed thoughts of Procillus.

b) the cruel acts of hanging yourself
which is my most literal rendering of the phrase, and also the most awkward.

c) cruel means of hanging yourself [the one used]
in which I chose to creatively render suspendia to mean the means of hanging oneself in the context of its plurality. For when Procillus considers attempting suicide, likely he does not think of how many times ought he commit suicides and instead imagine multiple scenarios in each of which he hanged himself in a different way i.e. different means of hanging yourself instead of different acts of hanging yourself. Hence, its used.

I have also considered to simply translate suspendia (cruel suicides), or to translate saeva as cruelly(cruelly hanging yourself).

What would be better alternatives?





II. the two comparisons
In this epigram, there are two parallel sets of lines

loto candidior puella cycno
argento nive lilio ligustro

and

sed quandam volo nocte nigriorem
formica pice graculo cicada.

I am puzzled by two things
a) the comparative adjectives : candidior and nigriorem
Comparative adjectives are used in these lines followed by words in the ablative case. Should I translate these of sentence as " more x than a, b, c, d, e" (ablative of comparison) or should I translate them as "as xx as a, b, c, d, e" taking into consideration the widespread use of as in English expressions of the same nature?
b) What to do with the end of the list
In English, a conjunction, usually "and" or "or", connects the last two words of a list. However, Martial did nor provide a conjunction.
i. Interpreting these lists as ended lists, should "and" or "or" be used to end them properly in English?
ii. Interpreting both lists as unending and ending the line with ...
Since this poem is a retort, I chose to interpret both lists of comparisons as ended lists. A poem ridiculing Procillus might portray the candidior puella he desired as one with unending beauty in order to taunt him further. However, the descriptions of both girls are written in a parallel manner, a fact that this theory does not account for(why would the other lady be dreamily portrayed with an unending list of comparison too?). Nevertheless, as I am not very familiar with Martial, I do not know for certain which interpretation is intended by Martial.

What are your opinions on this?

----​

Secondly, what does everyone think of this translation? Any suggestions on what improvements it needs?

 

[AoM]

I. suspendia saeva
I had a hard time phrasing suspendia saeva into English. Suspendium, as defined by Whitaker's Words is the act of hanging oneself. Being unable to think of an English phrase that does not invoke verbal nouns(gerunds, participles, etc.), I face an awkward situation as saeva, cruel, is an adjective. If I were to conserve the full meaning of suspendium, then

a) cruel hangings
in which I ignored the suicidal nature of the supposed thoughts of Procillus.

b) the cruel acts of hanging yourself
which is my most literal rendering of the phrase, and also the most awkward.

c) cruel means of hanging yourself [the one used]
in which I chose to creatively render suspendia to mean the means of hanging oneself in the context of its plurality. For when Procillus considers attempting suicide, likely he does not think of how many times ought he commit suicides and instead imagine multiple scenarios in each of which he hanged himself in a different way i.e. different means of hanging yourself instead of different acts of hanging yourself. Hence, its used.

I have also considered to simply translate suspendia (cruel suicides), or to translate saeva as cruelly(cruelly hanging yourself).

What would be better alternatives?

My first thought was 'a [/your?] horrid/hideous hanging', which gets the alliteration.

I am puzzled by two things
a) the comparative adjectives : candidior and nigriorem
Comparative adjectives are used in these lines followed by words in the ablative case. Should I translate these of sentence as " more x than a, b, c, d, e" (ablative of comparison) or should I translate them as "as xx as a, b, c, d, e" taking into consideration the widespread use of as in English expressions of the same nature?

The former.

b) What to do with the end of the list
In English, a conjunction, usually "and" or "or", connects the last two words of a list. However, Martial did nor provide a conjunction.
i. Interpreting these lists as ended lists, should "and" or "or" be used to end them properly in English?

I'd keep the asyndeton.

ii. Interpreting both lists as unending and ending the line with ...
Since this poem is a retort, I chose to interpret both lists of comparisons as ended lists. A poem ridiculing Procillus might portray the candidior puella he desired as one with unending beauty in order to taunt him further. However, the descriptions of both girls are written in a parallel manner, a fact that this theory does not account for(why would the other lady be dreamily portrayed with an unending list of comparison too?). Nevertheless, as I am not very familiar with Martial, I do not know for certain which interpretation is intended by Martial.

Whatever you choose, I'd make sure to keep them parallel.

Secondly, what does everyone think of this translation? Any suggestions on what improvements it needs?

One thing: novi, though perfect, is rendered as a present 'know'.

Oh, and invide could be from invidus (modifying Procille). But I'm not sure.

 

[Dantius]

Oh, and invide could be from invidus (modifying Procille). But I'm not sure.

Wouldn't that have a short e? I don't know if hendecasyllables allow a short vowel in that position.

 

[AoM]

Wouldn't that have a short e? I don't know if hendecasyllables allow a short vowel in that position.

Oh, hadn't considered the meter.

 

[Cambrinus]

Henedecasyllables indeed, so the -e of invide is short; ergo, vocative.

 

[Dantius]

Wouldn't it be long?

Quaēdām | mē cǔpǐt | īnvǐd | ē Prǒ | cīll ě

x x - u u - u - u - x

 

[Araneus]

About the hanging part - how about 'cruel ways to hang yourself'? Makes it a bit shorter, and pretty unambiguous. Or if you use 'wicked' for 'cruel', you'll get a little alliteration there.

 

[AVGVSTA]

Much gratitude!

 

[Cambrinus]

Wouldn't it be long?

Quaēdām | mē cǔpǐt | īnvǐd | ē Prǒ | cīll ě

x x - u u - u - u - x

You're right, of course. -e is followed by 'pr', so Catullus has the option of short or long. It is vocative, I think, nevertheless.

 

[Cambrinus]

Sorry, Martial!! Doh!

 

[Araneus]

You're right, of course. -e is followed by 'pr', so Catullus has the option of short or long. It is vocative, I think, nevertheless.

The meter says it's long, though.

 

[AVGVSTA]

I would agree so. Martial doesn't break his meter.

Though invide is still ambiguous, in the sense that the e is definitely long by position, so the meter cannot reveal whether or not it originally possesses a macron

 

[Cambrinus]

Augusta is right, I think; perhaps only recital would have revealed whether it's vocative or imperative.

 

[jbabic]

Can anyone tell me the meaning of this poem? I understand that Martial describes an ideal girl (according to beauty standards at the time)- fair skinned and delicate, however, I am confused when he mentions a dark skinned girl that he desires more. Who is the second girl?
P.S. I am asking because I am writing an assessment paper on beauty standards in ancient Rome.

 

[CSGD]

You're right, of course. -e is followed by 'pr', so Catullus has the option of short or long. It is vocative, I think, nevertheless.

Muta cum liquida at the beginning of a word cannot lengthen a short vowel at the end of the previous word.

Can anyone tell me the meaning of this poem? I understand that Martial describes an ideal girl (according to beauty standards at the time)- fair skinned and delicate, however, I am confused when he mentions a dark skinned girl that he desires more. Who is the second girl?
P.S. I am asking because I am writing an assessment paper on beauty standards in ancient Rome.

I don't have a commentary on that poem (or Martial in general), but to me it sounds like an attempt of just mocking Procillus.

I'm not sure to what extent this refers to beauty standards. candidus and niger can of course refer to skin color somehow, but also to the quality of somebody's character ... it's essentially the same metaphor that you find in modern times as well. My understanding of that poem is that it is trying to say, "You envy me because an honest, guileless girl likes me better than you — but don't worry, I don't want her; I'm actually looking for a really naughty one!"
And lines 3 and 5 look more or less like a gymnastic exercise in poetry.

That's only my impression, though. As I said, I don't know if there are other interpretations by people who know Martial better.