Pronunciation Issues With Hymnus Europae

[Godmy]

I didn't want to speak about the lengths because it seems to me sometimes it's impossible to do them right in a song unless the lyrics are perfectly composed that the long vowels coincide with the long tones etc. (if not, breaking the vowel lengths can actually be harmonically/aesthetically a better solution than to keep them as they are). Otherwise, (if it's not a song) I'm quite sensitive when it comes to vowel lengths, but I'm quite benevolent when it comes to singing (like, I like the Latin songs by Enya).

 

[Godmy]

In Czech, e.g., it happens sometimes that the short vowels coincide with a long tone in a song and it must be sung long...

 

[Pacifica]

Yeah, it seems like things sometimes want to be stretched a bit in music. For example, if a line ends in a (normally) short "a", it would often sound weird to me to end on a short "a" — it's like the last note usually wants to be stretched.

 

[Pacifica]

For example, the "a" of vela in the end here (at about 2:15) lingers on a bit, but, whether I'm right or wrong, it wouldn't sound so good to me to end the song abruptly on a sharp, short "a".

 

[Glabrigausapes]

While "Eu" is a diphthong in Europa, in e-um, e and u are pronunounced separately and the word consists of 2 syllables.

Right, according to the Classical model. But to say they're not comparable on that grounds is to ignore the possibly that, as the language developed, those two sounds (i.e. the diphthong, which in any case was borrowed from Greek except in a few native words like 'heu' and 'seu'; and the disyllabic 'eu' in the pronoun) may have merged, however different their origin.

Suffice it to say that this song is neither in perfect accordance with the Classical (restored) model, nor uninfluenced by regionalism (which in this case is German).

 

[Bitmap]

By the way, is there a sound file somewhere on this forum which gives an accurate pronunciation of the diphthong "eu" in words like Europa or Zeus?

I actually can't really imagine what it sounds like and the closest example I can picture is something like the English pronunciation.

Right, according to the Classical model. But to say they're not comparable on that grounds is to ignore the possibly that, as the language developed, those two sounds (i.e. the diphthong, which in any case was borrowed from Greek except in a few native words like 'heu' and 'seu'; and the disyllabic 'eu' in the pronoun) may have merged, however different their origin.

I suppose eum also makes a bit of a difference in that the u was nasalised there, which might have helped to prevent any diphthongisation ... at least I can't recall any example from poetry where eum would have to be read as a single long syllable.

 

[Iáson]

is to ignore the possibly that, as the language developed, those two sounds (i.e. the diphthong, which in any case was borrowed from Greek except in a few native words like 'heu' and 'seu'; and the disyllabic 'eu' in the pronoun) may have merged, however different their origin.

Graphically, they're written the same, so that seems plausible enough for Medieval Latin; but as long as the language was learnt from native speakers, it seems a bit radical to suppose that a diphthong would turn into two separate vowels like that. Note that seu becomes Romanian sau, at any rate, which is still a diphthong; and eu becomes [ev] or [ef] in Modern Greek.

 

[Glabrigausapes]

Does anyone know of a reliable reflex of eum in Romance? I mean, the pronoun is wasn't inherited at all by itself, I don't think, with ille taking its place. The closest I can get is S aquel or OI istesso, but neither is of any real use.

 

[Issacus Divus]

Oh, this song was discussed way before I brought it up.