Grimoire help

[Cagey]

Hello. BTW, I love poking around here at Latin D. ...

I found material relating to my Saint's name (The Good Thief - St. Dismas) and was looking for a proper translation. Stories of him a scarce, and i find this interesting... especially as it is found in a "popular" occult grimoire from 1752 A.D. By the way, Gestas is the other thief hung with Christ.

" Imparibus meritis tria during corporae ramis.
Dismas et Gestas in medio is potestas divina.
Damnatur Dismas, Gestas have astra levatur."

It is very possible this a hodge- podge of laguages, as is common with these types of underground publications.

Thanks,
K

 

[Pacifica]

"During", "is" and "have" indeed are English words ("is" and "have" can be Latin but wouldn't make sense here). Is it really that way in your source, or has your autocorrect maybe played a trick on you? Corporae also should be corpora.

While "during" and "have" are impossible to make sense of, the gist of it is that there were three bodies, of unequal merit, on branches (crosses). There were Dismas and Gestas, and the Divine Power (Jesus) in the middle. Dismas was damned, while Gestas was taken up to the stars (heaven).

I've found a slightly different and more correct version on Google, though not devoid of spelling mistakes/typos (which I've corrected below according to what made most sense):

Imparibus meritis pendent tría corpora ramis ;
Dysmas et Gestas, media et Divina Potestas ;
Alta petit Dysmas, infelix infima Gestas ;
Nos et res nostras conservet Summa Potestas ;
Hos versus dicas ne te furto tuo perdas......

"Three bodies of unequal merit are hanging from branches: Dismas and Gestas, and the Divine Power in the middle. Dismas makes for the high places; the unfortunate Gestas for the lowest regions. May the Supreme Power protect us and our things. Recite these lines not to destroy yourself with your theft."

The two versions fundamentally disagree on which one of the thieves went to hell and which one to heaven.

 

[Pacifica]

ne te furto tuo perdas......

not to destroy yourself with your theft."

I've found another version that says ne tu furto tua perdas, "not to lose your possessions through theft".

 

[Cagey]

Thank you Pacifica!!! Wonderful.
May I ask where you found the other versions? Were they also found within a grimoire? As I sent it to you itwas found within the "Petit Albert".
The variation of which is the heaven bound thief is interesting. I do know the Western Church is firm about Dismas and his Baptism by Desire. However I have heard one of the Eastern Church has them flip flopped with a slight variation in names also. I have not looked into it.
Also interesting about the variations of purpose for the incantation. As it is listed in my text, it is to defend against torture or possibly make one insensible to torture. The segment of text immediately before was directly dealing with a magic tool (The Hand of Glory) used by thieves and how to defeat it. I suppose the editor of Petit Albert inserted the spell in the wrong place.

 

[Pacifica]

May I ask where you found the other versions?

The first one is from here. As I said, I corrected some typos in it, but given the second version I found, my correction of ne te furto tua perdas as ne te furto tuo perdas was probably wrong. Apparently, te should have been corrected to tu rather than tua to tuo. The second version is from here.

 

[Dantius]

The first one is from here. As I said, I corrected some typos in it, but given the second version I found, my correction of ne te furto tua perdas as ne te furto tuo perdas was probably wrong. Apparently, te should have been corrected to tu rather than tua to tuo. The second version is from here.

tuo also wouldn't scan (the entire set of verses is in hexameter)

 

[Pacifica]

It's sort of a shame that my first version isn't correct, though. I sort of liked the idea of a prayer enabling thieves to steal without destroying themselves (damning their souls). Now it turns out it's just a boring spell against having one's things stolen.

 

[Cagey]

Pacifica- Just maybe it originally was.... The Hand of Glory was the ultimate thieves tool made from the dead hand of a hanged man and allowed the possessor to immobilize all who saw the flame of the candle it held. A terrible sin just to make such this object let alone use this demonic power...