Stilistic device I can't remember

[Bitmap]

I can't remember what you call it when a sentence starts with a subject word that belongs to both the main clause and the subordinate clause (as is usual in classical Latin), e.g.

Cic. fin. 62,6 (I think)
dolores autem si qui incurrunt, numquam vim tantam habent, ut non plus habeat sapiens, quod gaudeat, quam quod angatur.

dolores belongs to both the conditional and the main clause. I forgot what you call that. Apo koinu? Or is there a name of its own for that?

 

[Issacus Divus]

Apo koinu? Or is there a name of its own for that?

It seems to fit under Apo koinu, but I'll search a bit and gyve you some results.

Ellipse. ( I wager.)

Maybe it's something else?
I'm not really *well-grounded for this particular subject, but I'm willing to keep searching.




*Like, not too well-read on these devoices, although I remember Apo koinu.

 

[Bitmap]

Well, the second word (or its replacement by a pronoun) is kind of elliptic, but since the first word is still there, calling it an ellipse is not really satisfying. I'm currently doubting myself whether I just forgot the word for it, or whether I always just called it apo koin(o)u.

Btw. ellipse and apo koinu are two different things ... don't know where you have that definition from.

 

[Issacus Divus]

Uh, lol. So Reading Latin: Grammar, Vocabulary and Exercises By Peter V. Jones, Keith C. Sidwell is actually wrong? (Or is this a matter of context? Probably not, but to be fair.)

 

[Bitmap]

An ellipse simply means to leave out a word. Often it's about leaving out very a obvious word like "est" ...
an example I came across today: "Optime vero Epicurus, quod exiguam dixit fortunam intervenire sapienti (...)" Cic. fin. 63,1 -- something like 'agit' is missing behind Epicurus -- that's an elipse.

Apo koinou means that one word can relate to multiple different words.
Hor. C. 1, 5, 6 heu quoties fidem mutatosque deos flebit --> mutata / mutati are both, the fides and the dei

I suppose if you can extend apo koinou to the sentence level, then this construction is just an apo koinou.

 

[Dantius]

I've never heard of any name for this device.

 

[Pacifica]

An ellipse simply means to leave out a word. Often it's about leaving out very obvious word like "est" ...
an example I came across today: "Optime vero Epicurus, quod exiguam dixit fortunam intervenire sapienti (...)" Cic. fin. 63,1 -- something like 'agit' is missing behind Epicurus -- that's an elipse.

Apo koinou means that one word can relate to multiple different words.
Hor. C. 1, 5, 6 heu quoties fidem mutatosque deos flebit --> mutata / mutati are both, the fides and the dei

I suppose if you can extent apo koinou to the sentence level, then this construction is just an apo koinou.

I never knew that. I called both "ellipsis".

 

[Dantius]

Indeed, I've never heard of apo koinou.

 

[Bitmap]

I never knew that. I called both "ellipsis".

I can only refer German terminology to you of course. It could be possible that English does it differently; but the concept of apo koinou seems very important to me especially in cases where you can't just call a phenomenon 'eliptic' as well (in the Horace example you could more or less make that case).

Take this sentence from Cic. am. 3, 11:

<Scipio> duabus urbibus eversis inimicissimis huic imperio non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit.

... and insert commata

is it
duabus urbibus eversis, inimicissimis huic imperio, non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit. --- with the dative being dependent on inimicissimis

or is it
duabus urbibus eversis inimicissimis, huic imperio non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit. --- with the dative being a dativus commodi (dative of reference? or what do you call it?)

It's not unlikely that the author had both options in mind, that both are equally valid and that both are actually supposed to be implied... in which case huic imperio stands apo koinou.

 

[Pacifica]

I can only refer German terminology to you of course. It could be possible that English does it differently

Actually, that sort of Greek, Latin, or Greek- or Latin-derived terminology often means the same thing across languages, though there can be exceptions, like one language preferring a Greek(-derived) or Latin(-derived) term while another will have a native one, I suppose.

Anyway, this one is indeed used in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apo_koinou_construction

 

[Bitmap]

Anyway, this one is indeed used in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apo_koinou_construction

Cool ... imagine how cool it must be in Latin, where you don't even spoil the grammar

 

[Dantius]

oh, I have seen that article before. I forgot about that.

 

[AoM]

Yeah, I remember this (possible) one from Aeneid 6.

quid Thesea magnum / quid memorem Alciden? (122-3)

magnum with Theseus or Hercules? Many seem to take it with the latter. I still need to check Horsfall.

So Horsfall cites someone who argues for an apo koinou construction, and says he's probably right. I guess that could be a compromise.

 

[Glabrigausapes]

It sounds to my like what I imagine (but don't know) 'syllepsis' meant classically. Just trying to think of a word near enough in sound to 'ellipsis' that the mind would confuse them.

 

[Glabrigausapes]

Also 'zeugma', but both of these I only know in the context of Anglicus Modernus.

 

[Pacifica]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=syllepsis

Sounds similar.

 

[Bitmap]

It sounds to my like what I imagine (but don't know) 'syllepsis' meant classically. Just trying to think of a word near enough in sound to 'ellipsis' that the mind would confuse them.

Thank you for that suggestion. That seems to make some sense.

Also 'zeugma', but both of these I only know in the context of Anglicus Modernus.

Well, stylistic devices seem to be a rather vague issue sometimes. You find varying definitions and even varying term, not only across different languages, but even in one and the same language. I looked at some German sources on the internet for "syllepsis", and some of them simply conflate it with the term "zeugma". A zeugma is something different to me, though, at least in the definition I would use. A zeugma also means to use a single word that pertains to more than one sentence (or parts of a sentence), but usually in different meanings of the verb. E.g. "I have a bus and driven a car" - one time 'have' is a full verb, the second time it is an auxiliary ... or with phrasal verbs like "he put on his earphones and up with the noise" -- zeugmata usually sound a bit strange.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=syllepsis

Sounds similar.

I find the sample sentence from Vergil a bit wanting, though. I usually simply took "hic illius arma" as a simple ellipsis, especially since it is in a different verse than "hic currus fuit" ... at least it's a bit ambiguous, but ok, I get what they mean.

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

zeugmata usually sound a bit strange.

When he asked, 'What in heaven?' she made no reply, up her mind, and a dash to the door.

 

[Dantius]

In the States Certamen last weekend there was a question "What literary device is found in the line 'She saw thunder and lightning'?". They were looking for zeugma, since "saw" does not strictly pertain to "thunder" (cf. manus ac supplices voces ad Tiberium tendens from Tacitus, which Gildersleeve gives as an example for zeugma). I suppose you could also argue hysteron proteron, since the lightning should come before the thunder. I don't think it's a great example of a zeugma, but whatever.

 

[Glabrigausapes]

They were looking for zeugma... I don't think it's a great example of a zeugma, but whatever.

Yeah, that's a tad thin, in that 'seeing thunder' isn't a figure of speech but just evidence of the clumsiness of language. We call coats 'warm' where we really mean 'well-insulating' or something like that (but then, there's probably some term for that also).