To Heaven Together

[warnermf]

Hi everyone, I'm very grateful for this community and for your help!

"To Heaven Together" is a family motto of ours and I'm considering including it in a stained glass window design, but would like it in Latin.

"Heaven" here is referring to "the place and condition of perfect supernatural happiness." ie the place we hope to go after we die, and see God face to face, etc.

"Together" is referring to ending up there together as a group/family and helping each other along the way.

I've had two acquaintances who know latin give me two very different translations:

1) ad coelum cunctim
2) Simul ad caelo

Since this will be stained glass, I want to make sure I get it perfect. Any clarity is very much appreciated. Thank you again!

 

[Issacus Divus]

I've never heard of "cunctim".

Your 2) should be Simul ad caelum. Why did they put it in the ablative if they know Latin?


I've just searched it now. Cunctim is a rare adverb. Don't know why that would be chosen...but it might need a verb for clarification.

 

[warnermf]

I'm not sure what "in the ablative" means sorry. And I don't have access to the person now anyway.

 

[warnermf]

But I'd be interested in how anyone in here would translate it themselves? What do you think the best translation would be considering this meaning/context/purpose?

Thank you!

 

[Ignis Umbra]

I'm not sure what "in the ablative" means sorry.

"Ablative" is just one of seven possible cases for words in Latin, suffixes that denote a word's function in a sentence/phrase.

Isaac correctly remarked on it because the preposition ad must be followed by a noun in the accusative case, not the ablative case.

If you're interested in this topic (and in Latin in general), then have a look at this beginner's guide.

But I'd be interested in how anyone in here would translate it themselves?

While we're talking about ad, I would actually prefer to use the preposition in over ad. I commented on this distinction a while ago in another thread, but I still think it has relevance.

The difference between the prepositions in and ad is quite subtle. When ad is used, it is less certain that the destination (i.e. the word following ad) is reached. Let's consider a sentence: "I am going to the forest."

With ad: Eo ad silvam - While this means that I am going to the forest, it doesn't ascertain that I actually entered the forest. I could be mauled by a bear, have a change of mind, etc.

With in: Eo in silvam - This sentence does ascertain that I successfully entered the forest, and in fact literally means "I am going into the forest".

In the context of this phrase, simul in caelum would be more definitive than simul ad caelum.

Regarding the rest of the phrase, at a first glance simul in caelum looks like "at once to Heaven". Simul can mean "together", but that's not the first definition that comes to mind in a standalone phrase like this. The adverb una might be a better replacement.

 

[Callaina]

I actually prefer simul ad caelum. To my ear it preserves the idea of "to Heaven" better, as though Heaven is a particular, defined location that one can arrive "at".

 

[Callaina]

But that's just my two cents. I could be wrong.

 

[Issacus Divus]

That's how I see it, too.

 

[Ignis Umbra]

I actually prefer simul ad caelum. To my ear it preserves the idea of "to Heaven" better, as though Heaven is a particular, defined location that one can arrive "at".

Fair, but then there's being "at" Heaven versus being "in" Heaven. What's your take on in?

 

[Callaina]

I think I would be more likely to read simul in caelum as "into the sky together".

 

[syntaxianus]

ad Paradisum ûnâ

to heaven together

L&S: ūnā : in one and the same place, at the same time, in company, together

 

[Callaina]

That works as well.

 

[warnermf]

This is great help everyone. Although now I do have more variations than I started with. Let me see if I understand correctly:

1) Nobody has really liked the idea of using "cunctim" (as in "ad coelum cunctim") because it is an adverb being used without a verb? Or is that okay in Latin sometimes as in English where there are incomplete sentences as mottos, which may include an adverb without a verb?

2) We have a few variations suggested for the second (corrected) option:

• simul ad caelum
• simul in caelum
• una ad caelum

Any favorites/preferences from anyone else on these?

3) The additional option of "ad Paradisum ûnâ" seems promising, too. Which, based on the definition of una provided, ("in one and the same place, at the same time, in company, together")...that does seem to fit the intention/meaning very well. Thoughts?

Did I get all that right? Any corrections or additional advice?

 

[Adrian]

I would rather use adverb una rather than simul in reference to "together"
I am not sure if "una ad caelum" conveys english expression "to (reach) heaven together" - in light of context provided by you .

"Together" is referring to ending up there together as a group/family and helping each other along the way.

omnes caelum perveniemus (we shall all reach heaven) would be my choice to express context that you provided.

 

[Issacus Divus]

That looks good.

 

[warnermf]

I don't think "we shall reach" is capturing it quite right, though. It is not supposed to be a declaration of some presumed future, but a commitment and Hope and encouragement that we will help each other to get there. I would say it would be more like (let us go) to heaven together...or (we journey) to heaven together.

 

[Dantius]

1) Nobody has really liked the idea of using "cunctim" (as in "ad coelum cunctim") because it is an adverb being used without a verb? Or is that okay in Latin sometimes as in English where there are incomplete sentences as mottos, which may include an adverb without a verb?

That's not the problem, since simul and una are also adverbs. The issue with cunctim is that it's a very rare word only used by one author (who is known for coining unusual words), and perhaps not even the best word for this phrase anyway.

 

[Adrian]

like (let us go) to heaven together...or (we journey) to heaven together.

iter una facimus ad caelum - we make journey to heaven together


eamus una ad caelum - let us go together to heaven

 

[Gregorius Textor]

iter una facimus ad caelum - we make journey to heaven together


eamus una ad caelum - let us go together to heaven

Adrian is using subjunctive verbs to express the idea of "let us do" instead of "we do".
This is correct, if you want to make the verb explicit.

However, my preference would be to leave the verb implicit, as in the original English version.

 

[warnermf]

I like the idea of leaving the verb implicit as well. I just wasn't sure if that worked the same way in latin as in english. In that case, "una ad caelum" would still make sense, correct?

Additionally, as in English, can it work in either order (just as you can say "to heaven together" or "together to heaven" and have it essentially mean the same thing)? Or is one more appropriate to say... "una ad caelum" vs "ad caelum una"?