19th century Baptism/Birth Certificate

By Mike_M2, in 'Latin to English Translation', Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Mike_M2 New Member

    Hi guys.

    I'm doing my family genealogical research and I have problem with translating one latin birth/baptism certificate from 1820s.
    This is the picture with this text:


    http://i52.tinypic.com/vhqm9g.jpg
    I advise to save it on disk and enlarge in some picture manager.

    This what I can read from this text:
    Ex villa Brynica Anno Domini Millefime Octocentifime Vigefime ? ? ?
    ? ? <Franciszek?> Bukowski ? ? Lubochnia ? ? ? nomine
    Adalbertum filium Joachimi Michalski et Jadwigiu Marcyanowna
    ? ? Phillipu ? et Francisca Pawelczykowna.

    Brynica, Lubochnia - names of villages
    Franciszek, Bukowski, Adalbertum, Joachim, Michalski, Jadwigiu, Marcyanowna, Philippu, Franciska, Pawelczykowna - names and surnames.

    Could you try to decode the words that I marked as ? and translate the whole text into english?
    Even if you have problem with all the words, I would be grateful if you decode/translate any words form this text.

    Attached Files:

  2. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Shall we try a line at a time? I think the first line may be:

    Ex villa Brynica Anno Domini Millesimo Octocentesimo Vigesimo die Vigesima Sexta

    From Brynica village in the one thousand eight hundred and twentieth year of Our Lord on the twenty-sixth day ...
  3. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Second line. I'm not sure about the priest's name.

    martii Ego Franciscus Buchaski Prepositus in Lubochnia baptisavi infantem masculum nomine

    ... of March, I, Franciscus Buchaski, Priest in Lubochnia, baptised a male baby with the name ...
  4. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Third line. I admit I'm struggling with the names. I'm hoping someone else might chip in soon.

    Adlabertum filium Joachimi Michaluli et Hedvigia Marcyanowna Constia coniugum legitimorum

    ... Adalbertus, the son of Joachimus Michalulus and Hedvigia Marcyanowna Constia, lawfully married ...
  5. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Fourth line: still not very confident over the names.

    Patrini aderant Philippus Zelosczyk et Francisca Pawelczykowna

    The godparents Philippus Zelosczyk and Francisca Pawelczykowna were present.
  6. voxlarsi New Member

    Location:
    Norvegia
    :applause: :applause:
    I'm impressed. This is really hard to render, but even the names look about right. Although the names list in the OP mentiones the name Michalski, which I suspect to be the Michaluli you mentioned. I think you can look away from the -us case endings on those names in the translation. I don't think the common-folks used latin names :) Again, great rendering :thumbup:
  7. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    They certainly didn't, but here we have a Polish village priest trying to Latinise the names. The priest's Latin may have been largely medieval rather than classical and may not have been brilliant in any case. As I said, I'm not terribly confident over a lot of it but with a bit of luck the names may be recognisable to Mike and any blunders may be picked up by others.

    [Edit] I haven't attempted to de-Latinise the names back to Polish, that's a matter for Mike. In any case as I may have misread them in the first place I would simply be compounding the error.
  8. Mike_M2 New Member

    Well (I'll thank later - separately) as for the first two lines: in my opinion the only thing that may differ from your "decoding" is surname of the priest. I have his another note where the word is written more clearly - check out this link: http://i52.tinypic.com/210hbls.jpg. So it looks as if his surname is Buchowski.

    Third line: The most important thing in this note is the name and the surname of "Joachimi Michaluli". As far as name is considered I agree with your latin spelling, but why did you translate it into Jachimus in english? My english dictionary spells this name: "Joachim" so that's why I ask.
    More important is the surname. This is the surname of my family and subject of my research. Geniuinely Polish surname - "Michalski". If you're sure that this is Michaluli not Michalski then I have a problem. Although all signs (the date, location etc.) seem to confirm that he was my ancestor and that surname must be Michalski. I would be very surprised if I'm wrong. Although: maybe Polish surname was translated into latin by the priest? Hm...I doubt.
    What do you think about that?
    And the last problem is the word "Costia" you have written. I suppose this in not a second surname (as you meant?) but ...I don't know - I woud say this is some other latin word.
  9. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Agreed.
    I assumed Joachimi was genitive case so I translated it as "of Joachimus". As I said in my reply to voxlarsi I made no attempt to de-Latinise the names, only to put them into the nominative case. You can be fairly sure that Joachimus is actually Joachim.
    I'm not at all sure of my rendering of the names. From what you say it is almost certainly Michalski.
    No, I'm pretty sure the error is mine and the priest wrote Michalski.
    I simply don't know. Constia was the best I could make of it. I hope someone else will have a better idea.
  10. deudeditus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    California
    as for the Michalui v. Michalski deal, I think it could be Michalski. The -ki looks viable. Sometimes my k's turn out like that if I'm writing quickly. The -s- presents a problem. But it's the same shape as the final s in Fransiscus (in the second line) and Fransisca (in the fourth line) Also, the -ki in Buchowski is the same shape as the last bit in Michalui/Michalski.

    As for the Joachimus, he probably added the -us at the end because the phrase filius joachimi... suggests that the priest latinized Joachim into Joachimus.
  11. deudeditus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    California
    ... when I started my last reply i hadn't seen your latest one, Decimus.
  12. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Fit merda :)
  13. Mike_M2 New Member

    Ok...now I'm pretty sure this is the right note and right ancestor - Joachim Michalski.
    The only two unexplained problems:

    1. surname Zelosczyk - surely misspelled, but it't doesn't matter.

    2. and this word that you translated as "Costia". At first it seems not to be important but...check out this picture: http://i54.tinypic.com/2pt1lyq.jpg (is quite big - 1mb - if you have problems say that and i will put it in worse resolution and size). As you can see a few notes, the additional word between the surname of mother and phrase "coniugum legitimorum" occurs only in the central note (mine, which I have sent you earlier cut out). So I'm curious about information hidden by this word. I'm sure this is not the second surname of mother. I guess it may be information about profession, confirmation that they were catholics or something like that (probably i'm wrong). It seems to me as if it is the word "Consibi", but I don't know the latin - does such word exist?
    This is the word cut out separately: http://i51.tinypic.com/2w33pn5.jpg.
    Can somebody encrypt this word?

    And last question, prosaic for you:
    You translated "Patrini aderant" into "the godparents ... were present".
    But I'm studying the text deeply - every single word. So I see that patrini = parents and aderant means "god..." or is it the noun "to be" transformed in latin?
  14. deudeditus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    California
    coniugam, maybe??

    ----

    patrini = godparents, I think. aderant = (they) were present.
  15. Mike_M2 New Member

    Hm...Coniugum or Coniugam is the next word so it's impossible.

    What do you think about "Consili" or "Consibi"?
  16. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Patrini is medieval Latin for "godparents" or "sponsors at baptism".

    Aderant is "were present". It is the third person plural imperfect indicative of adesse, "to be present" or "to arrive". This in turn is a compound of esse, "to be", and the preposition ad, meaning "towards", "near" or "at".

    Still working on the mystery word.
  17. voxlarsi New Member

    Location:
    Norvegia
    Mike, do you know what the parents did for a living? The mystery word could definitely be consilii (of the counsil, or something similar). The same word does not appear in the other notes in the second link, and if they were of a higher social class it would make sense.
  18. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    He's fairly diligent about dotting his i's. I think we would see two dots at the end of the word if that were right. Keep the ideas coming though.
  19. voxlarsi New Member

    Location:
    Norvegia
    Yes, I noticed. But it's the only thing that seems to make any sense (provided, of course, that the husband was in fact a counsilman). The dot could have been placed in the middle of the possible l, and thus not visible for the naked eye.
  20. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Consilis looks possible but doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think it's consibi. Apart from its not making sense we have a very clear small "b" for comparison in Lubochnia.

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