19th century Baptism/Birth Certificate

By Mike_M2, in 'Latin to English Translation', Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    When you're analysing a sample of difficult handwriting you have to use the parts you already know to help decrypt the parts you don't. With a different hand it could well be con sibi but when we look at the "b"s in Lubochnia and Adalbertum we can see that the top loop is well formed and the bottom loop of the letter is closed. Now compare the difficult letter with some of the "l"s in the script. In particular look at the "l" in masculum.

    The final letter really puzzles me. By consistency with the rest of the script it is closer to "s" than "o" but it could be either. I don't think the word can be consulis because the supposed "u" does not match other "u"s in the script. Also there is a dot above the letter, indicating it as an "i". The dot is poorly formed but it is very similar to the one over the "i" in in in the middle of the second line.

    As voxlarsi points out this word has to indicate something fairly unusual as it does not appear in other nearby entries. When you revisit the archive, Mike, can you have a good trawl through to see if you can find another occurrence of the word? This might make it clearer and also give a better idea of its frequency.

    Well done on cracking "Żelaszczyk", Mike.
  2. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    We have martii at the beginning of the second line but I'm not sure how helpful it is. There is a single dot and a long down stroke but it is by no means clear to me whether this is a convention for writing double "i" or a simple slip of the pen. In either case it's nothing like the ending of the mystery word.

    Edit: If you look at entry 1011 from the other link Mike gave you can see another Martii with the same exaggerated downstroke. It looks as if this may indeed be a convention for writing double "i". This is further evidence against the problem word's ending in double "i".
  3. Mike_M2 New Member

    I was in the archive and I've got some new stuff which I think will let us unriddle a mystery!

    First of all new facts:
    - Joachim and Hevigia were both alive when the child was baptised
    - they were farmers so that probably they had nothing common with the council
    - Hedvigia was the first (and last) wife of Joachim and they got married in 1818 in the same church where their child was baptised in 1820 although...(I am going to continue this thread later)

    And now documents...(names of baptised children are underlined but it is not my work so don't mind it)
    I've found the act of baptism of Adalbertum's older brother (Thomas) from 1818 and our mystery word does not occur there. In the whole note (I leave out the last sentence about the godparents because it is not so important) there are only three differences: 1- mystery word, already mentioned (act of Adalbertum) 2- sex of the child is not defined (act of Thomas), 3- the word "Laboriaferum?" in the act of Thomas (word between "filium" and "Joachim") (act of Thomas)
    You will surely know the spelling and meaning of this word (3) (I think it may be something connected with labor - e.g. hardworking - the description of parents ; such epithet was probably quite common the same as e.g. honest).
    http://oi54.tinypic.com/24yn05c.jpg

    Second pic presents some other notes where there is an additional word preceding "coniugum legitimorum". This word looks as if it is something like: "consertio", "consertii" - I'm sure you'll manage to decrypt it. It is quite simillar to mystery word - I think that the mystery word is the same but really badly written. What do you think about it? Is this the same word but badly written? What does it mean?
    http://oi54.tinypic.com/fxe420.jpg


    ...And continuing the thread about marriage. I've found the act of marriage of Jochaim and Hedvigia from 1818 in some other source. The book with acts of marriage (priest's) dating from 1808 to 1824 do not contain the note with marriage of Joachim! That is unexplainable because they certainly got married in that church. So idea of Decimus Canus that the mystery word means "by advice" and his explanation could be true. Although you're probably already know the meaning of this word after analyzing what I've wirtten above this paragraph 8) .
  4. voxlarsi New Member

    Location:
    Norvegia
    Ah, it seems to be consentio. What we thought was the first "dot" must simply have been the stroke for the "t" in our word. Could it mean that the priest himself married them?

    The other word you mention seems to be laboriafarum. A genitive as such, but I don't know the intended meaning.
    ETA: After a closer look, it's more likely consertio, as mike pointed out. Maybe they weren't married yet, but was about to?
  5. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Mike tells us they were married in 1818.
  6. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Excellent work, Mike. Remember the direction of the loops is important so again it's a medial "s", not an "f". I think the word is Laboriosorum, the genitive plural of Laboriosus which can mean "laborious" or "troublesome" but in this case undoubtedly means, as you correctly surmise, "industrious" or "hardworking", and it refers of course to the parents.

    The only possible fly in the ointment is entry 741 which is for a girl, and the word looks like Laboriosoram rather than Laboriosorum . This would mean that it applies to the child rather than the parents and it would be an unknown word. I think we have to put this down to a slip of the pen by the priest, possibly being influenced by the ending of the previous word.

    As far as the original mystery word goes I'd like a little more time to work on it. I now think the meaning in English is either "by common agreement" or "by joining together" but I'm worried about a lack of consistency between the various samples.
  7. Mike_M2 New Member

    If you enlarge the picture in some editor you'll see that it is rather "u". I've found in the internet some examples and this word and meaning is now for sure clear - as we thought. Thanks.

    I've also found in my pictures next sample of mystery word:
    http://oi56.tinypic.com/24zkcp0.jpg
    Ehh...it looks as if it has to be "consortio", "consortii" or "consortis".
  8. voxlarsi New Member

    Location:
    Norvegia
    Oh, yes indeed an excellent investigation, Mike :thumbup:
    Right, of course. Sorry :whistle:
    Now that I look at the word again, I think it might be consortis; that they shared their economy, or something. Maybe Hedviga came from a wealthier family?

    ETA: Didn't see your post till now, Mike. It seems that the noun laborius takes either gender, so it doesn't really matter whether it's a or o. If you look at the plural genitive ending, that's our word. I am still not sure about the meaning, though.
  9. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Laboriosus is a regular 1st/2nd declension adjective. The variant we have is laboriosorum which is the masculine genitive plural. Laboriosarum would be used only when referring to two or more people, both or all of whom are female. Laboriosoram or laboriosaram would simply be a mistake.
  10. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    When I enlarge entry 741 I still see an "a". It is almost identical to the "a" in filiam immediately before it. However, I don't think this is important. We have three successive words ending in "am", "am" and "um". We can assume that the priest just got careless and allowed muscle memory to take over so that he wrote three successive "am" endings. It is a very understandable mistake.

    Now, for the mystery word I still see three different versions. In entries 741 and 742 I see consertio. In entry 743 I see consortio. In the original entry you posted, 1013, I still see consilio.

    Consertio could mean "a joining together". However, it is in the nominative case and grammatically it just doesn't fit.

    Consortio would mean "in partnership" and makes perfect sense in this context: "... the son of X and Y lawfully married in partnership ..."

    Consilio would mean "by advice" or "by common agreement" and also makes sense as a qualification of the marriage.

    Logic tells us that it is extremely unlikely that three such similar words are in use in the same place. It is almost certainly the same word each time but written with varying degrees of care and precision. Your final very clear sample solves it. It is consortio, "in partnership".

    If you now snip out the various samples of this word you can order them from most clear to least clear. The gradual deterioration of the handwriting is then apparent and you can see how consortio ends up as consilio. Finally if you look very closely at the word in entry 1013 I am sure you have noticed a tiny mark on the final stroke of "s". I had discounted this earlier but the successive samples show how it could be a badly formed letter. I'm satisfied that Fr. Buchowski intended consortio in each case.
  11. Mike_M2 New Member

    She didn't. I think Decimus Canus cracked the meaning.

    I have more examples of this word e.g. not plural such as: obiit laboriosa Marianna Michalska. Meaning of this word (hardworking) is undeniable. :p

    As far as "consertio" is concerned I've made simillar investigation as yours Decimus and I've came to similar conclusions - you (we) have to be right. Your explanation is pretty actual.

    To sum up:
    Huge thanks especially to Decimus Canus and voxlarsi - it was your brilliant effort and a good lesson for me.
    Imagine that this was the beginning of my research and first latin act I've faced. Now I'm struggling and fighting hard with next acts (of marriage and of dead) which is hard but I managed to translate 90% of these texts.

    One more time thanks very much :p !
  12. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    I'm actually going to put my chips in with consortis, for a couple of reasons:

    In most instances of our mystery word the final letter looks identical to final 's' in other words, e.g. prepositus, Franciscus, and Hedvigis (not *Hedvigia, which would have been ungrammatical anyway) from the first scan. It also seems that here the writer either failed to cross the 't' or otherwise misplaced it, making it look as if the letter were an 'l'.

    To be sure, the final letter of the mystery word in the more detailed scan does look closer to an 'o', but compare it to the final 's' of Philippus in the first scan, which likewise looks like an 'o' despite the fact that it cannot possibly be. In every other instance, however, at least as far as I can tell, the final letter of the mystery word more closely resembles final 's'.

    I don't know where the idea came from that consortis would here imply the wife was a wealthy inheritor. I think by this point consors simply meant "cohabitant", i.e. the woman who shares the house with the man, whether lawfully married to him or not. Here it would just mean "wife".
  13. Mike_M2 New Member

    Although the meaning of the mystery word is not crucial certainly (now we can say so)...

    I completely agree with Imber Ranae - his explanation is good and...
    I've checked all pics with mystery word one more time and I've found another CLEAR sample (used by me in another topic):
    http://oi53.tinypic.com/sya06b.jpg
    Eh...Now I can bet this is "consortis" and after re-analyzing other samples I think that we have consortis everywhere. Unique "s" at the end is undeniable. Don't you think?

    Unfortunately the meaning is not so clear then as it would be in case of "consortio".
  14. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Here it probably just means "wife". If coniugum legitimorum weren't there I suppose it would be the Polish equivalent of "common-law wife", if there was/is such a thing, or "domestic partner" or something along those lines.
  15. Mike_M2 New Member

    Agreed - this is it probably...if I ever find better translation/explanation of this word I will tell you... for now it is the most suiting version.
    Thanks Imber Ranae and others mentioned earlier!
  16. Decimus Canus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I am certain Imber Ranae is correct. So change my earlier incorrect:

    "... the son of X and Y lawfully married in partnership ..."

    to: "... the son of X and his wife Y, lawfully married, ..."

    ... and I think we're there.

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