Ablative of Location

By Oliverliver123, in 'Latin Grammar Questions', Dec 17, 2018.

  1. When may we use an ablative of location without a preposition. I saw it in Vergil.
  2. Adrian Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Expressing point of journey "from" - home; countryside; town names, small islands
    [Domo / Rure / Roma] ambulo - I am walking from [Home/ countryside/ Rome]

    expressing place with some town names in plural form - Athenis/ Philippis/ Gadibus habito;
    noun foris (outside) foris mane (stay outside)

    Here is more complementary material:

    section 228
    https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/bennett.html#sect228


    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0001:smythp=427
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0001:smythp=429
    Last edited by Adrian, Dec 18, 2018
  3. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Also in poetry and later Latin with any noun (like solio sedere, or equitem propinquis lucis tegere), andwith locus (like Rhodanus nonnullis locis vado transitur, rather than in nonnullis locis). In some situations it's kind of something to learn on a case-by-case basis with certain words and expressions.
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes, but that's an ablative of separation, not location.
    Aren't those technically locative rather than ablative, even though the forms are identical?
  5. Big Horn Member

    Location:
    Cody, WY, U.S.
    I'm inclined to agree. There are instances, however, that would have different forms. Are there examples of first or second declension singular ablative used without a preposition where the locative seems correct?
  6. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Virgil also likes the so-called ablative of extension ('along'), e.g.,

    - toto sonuerunt aethere nimbi. (2.113)
    - tum pavidae tectis matres ingentibus errant (2.489)
    - nox erat et terris animalia somnus habebat: (3.147)
    - laeta boum passim campis armenta videmus (3.220)
  7. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    why

    Some people differentiate "ablative of place from which" and "ablative of separation". With that scheme, all the ones Adrian listed would be place from which, not seperation. Separation would only be with abstract nouns like metu me liberabis, or with words of separation rather than just moving away, like (a) navibus hostes prohibere or the like.
    Perhaps others do not observe this distinction, in which case yes, Adrian's examples are separation.
  8. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    lol.

    You know I'm usually against overclassification when it comes to the ablative, but at least when it comes to Virgil's uses in the Aeneid, it's definitely warranted.

    Horsfall cites a Malosti, but looking at the citation, it seems I won't be able to read through it.

    S. Malosti 'Uno stilema virgiliano: l'ablativo di estenzione' in Studi sulla lingua poetica latina ed. A. Traina (Roma 1967), 19-101.
  9. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    The way I learnt it was that you make a general distinction between instrumentalis, separativus and locativus and you go from there to distinguish sub categories.

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