Aeneid - Book VIII

By AoM, in 'Aeneid', Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Even if the statement were true, would there be any true interest in mentioning it?
  2. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Yeah, not really lol.

    Here's the rest of that note, btw:

    "The adjective occurs only here in Virgil of horses; it can be applied in particular to animals of notably savage and wild temperament (OLD s.v. 9b). Acer can describe that which is especially vigorous (cf. 342 below, of Romulus)."

    But it would have made more sense to cite the two examples from 1 and 4. I still don't understand how they missed them.

    Edit: and maybe even acer equo (668) from book 5.
  3. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Gonna expound a little on this line from what the Brill had.

    sole repercussum aut radiantis imagine lunae (23)

    If the sun and moon can be used for Apollo and Diana, they can also represent Aeneas and Dido.

    qualis ubi hibernam Lyciam Xanthique fluenta
    deserit ac Delum maternam invisit Apollo
    instauratque choros, mixtique altaria circum
    Cretesque Dryopesque fremunt pictique Agathyrsi;
    ipse iugis Cynthi graditur mollique fluentem
    fronde premit crinem fingens atque implicat auro,
    tela sonant umeris: (4.143-9)

    Qualis in Eurotae ripis aut per iuga Cynthi
    exercet Diana choros, quam mille secutae
    hinc atque hinc glomerantur oreades; (1.498-500)

    Also cf. the moon simile in book 6.

    inter quas Phoenissa recens a vulnere Dido
    errabat silva in magna; quam Troius heros
    ut primum iuxta stetit agnovitque per umbras
    obscuram, qualem primo qui surgere mense
    aut videt aut vidisse putat per nubila lunam (450-4)

    So in addition to the situation with Turnus and Latinus, and the inevitable war, I like to think that Dido still stirs his thoughts even now.
  4. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    > the Brill cites Milton

    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Dantius likes this.
  5. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    "Varro (DRR 2.4.18) notes that the corpse of the mother pig was still being
    displayed in his own day by priests, kept salted and preserved."

    I like country ham as much as the next guy, but come on now.
    Dantius likes this.
  6. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    They quote someone who writes:

    “Ascanius (8 letters), Iulus (5), and Ilus (4)—a total of 17 letters which are distributed exactly in the same way as the 3 main intervals of Pythagorean and Greek music theory: 8, 5, and 4.”

    [IMG]
    Dantius and Pacifica like this.
  7. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    seems like a huge stretch to me
  8. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    A small mistake.

    "superes: The theme of Aeneas as victor (50; 61) continues; the imperfect subjunctive here leads to the imperative supera at 61, as Tiberinus gives instructions for how Aeneas is to achieve victory on the immortal plane."
    Last edited by AoM, Oct 14, 2018
  9. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Interesting.

    “Virgil never uses ita ut in the sense of ‘so that’” (Mackail).
  10. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Have you ever read Le Roman d'Enéas, Pacifica? (Or anyone else who knows French)

    Though I don't know how different the French is.
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    No.
  12. Quintilianus Active Member

    Location:
    France
    Neither have I. First time I hear about it, actually.
    Since however I am reading the Aeneid these days, I am really looking forward to reading this translation as well -- I expect the Latin will help me understand old French.

    edit : though after looking at the beginning of it, it doesn't seem to be following very closely the Latin text.

    edit² : there are quite a few helpful annotations in the margins of this version, for those interested : https://archive.org/details/eneastextecritiq00enuoft/page/2
    Last edited by Quintilianus, Oct 17, 2018
  13. Quintilianus Active Member

    Location:
    France
    There's a lot I can understand but also a lot that is unclear, though I think with a little study of ancient French it should come quite easily.
    A passage and his corresponding (one of the most matching passages from the first lines I've read I think) lines in the Aeneid (not book VIII sorry) :
    "Par deu" fait il, "buer furent ne
    cil ki a Troie la cité
    furent detrenchié et ocis
    Por quei m'en tornai ge chaitis ?
    Mielz volsisse que Achillés
    m'eüst ocis o Titidés,
    la o furent ocis tant conte,
    que ci morusse a itel honte.
    Por quei ne m'ocistrent li Greu ?

    The Latin :
    'O terque quaterque beati,
    quis ante ora patrum Troiae sub moenibus altis
    contigit oppetere! O Danaum fortissime gentis
    Tydide! Mene Iliacis occumbere campis
    non potuisse, tuaque animam hanc effundere dextra,
    saevus ubi Aeacidae telo iacet Hector, ubi ingens
    Sarpedon, ubi tot Simois correpta sub undis
    scuta virum galeasque et fortia corpora volvit?'

    So quite different. The last three lines of the Latin aren't there at all in the French. (well actually, the idea is... but without names, it's (I think) : 'la o furent ocis tant conte')

    edit : Further down in the French it goes on describing the sentiments of 'Eneas' and the names of Hector and Priam thus appear.
    Last edited by Quintilianus, Oct 17, 2018
  14. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    The Old French is cute.
  15. Quintilianus Active Member

    Location:
    France
    I most say I like "li Greu"
    or futrther on :
    Molt s'esmaient si compaignon,
    Ne desirrent se la mort non
    Ce lor est vis, que molt lor targe.
    Which means as I take it :
    Moult s'effrayaient ses compagnons
    (Rien) ne désirent sinon la mort
    Tel est leur avis que moult leur tarde (i.e. que vienne la mort)

    But I'm afraid I'm digressing from the object of this thread.
    Last edited by Quintilianus, Oct 17, 2018
  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Actually, I don't much like the sound of those particular words.
  17. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, the way they sound if read the modern way... Not sure how they would have sounded back then.
  18. Quintilianus Active Member

    Location:
    France
    That's what I like. I found it somewhat funny.
    Though I'm not exactly sure how should 'eu' be pronounced in this particular instance.
  19. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Then I agree!
    Well, cf. my last post. (I think you replied before seeing it.)
  20. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    Now these are the references I can get behind.

    "Cf. Coppola’s cinematic scene composition of Colonel Kurtz’s lair in
    Apocalypse Now, with similar imagery."
    Pacifica likes this.

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