aequales uvae acidae vinum pariet

By john abshire, in 'Latin Beginners', May 14, 2018.

  1. john abshire Member

    even sour grapes will make (will produce) wine
    aequales uvae acidae vinum pariet

    Is my Latin translation correct?
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    No.

    - You've got the wrong sort of "even". Aequales is an adjective meaning "equal"; the "even" you've got in the English is not the latter, but an adverb.

    - The verb doesn't agree with its subject.
  3. john abshire Member


    even sour grapes will make (will produce) wine
    aequales uvae acidae vinum parient.

    I thought i needed an adverb 'even', but could not find it (on the Latin side) of my (larger print) dictionary.
    On the English side, for even (as an adverb), my dictionary gives etiam, and quoque, but these two are not listed on the Latin side of the dictionary (as adverbs).
    etiam is listed, but only as a conjunction (=and also, too, besides).

    searching dictionary number two (more inclusive, but print too small for my old eyes), i find etiamsi, etsi (= even if).
    then, vel=adv, even, actually.

    even sour grapes will make (will produce) wine
    vel uvae acidae vinum parient.
    is this correct?
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    Location:
    Belgium
    I think I would choose etiam rather than vel in this context.

    If your Latin-English dictionaries don't give "even" as a possible meaning for etiam, they must be rather incomplete, as it's a fairly common meaning.
  5. john abshire Member

    thank you;
    My (desk) dictionary gives etiam as a conjunction =and also, too, besides; even now; yes indeed, yes.
    Cassell's also gives etiam as a conjunction. The second meaning is closest, (2) without reference to time, etiam= also, besides, even
    I could not find etiam listed in the Latin to English section as an adverb, even though the English to Latin section gives even adv =etiam. [the second meaning of etiam]

    even sour grapes will make (will produce) wine.
    since even is an adverb, does even describe sour grapes, or the production of wine?

    even sour grapes can (are able to) produce wine
    etiam uvae acidae vinum parere possunt.
    accuratusne sum?
  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    The classification of etiam has been a bit fuzzy, for some reason, but to my mind (and some others') it's an adverb. You can have a look at this thread for a short discussion of the matter.

    In your sentence, "even" modifies sour grapes rather than the verb. If it modified the verb, it would be "Sour grapes even produce wine", a whole different meaning.
    The translation is correct. On the other hand, I'm not sure accuratusne sum is, though I get you meant to say "Am I right?"
  7. john abshire Member

    In your sentence, "even" modifies sour grapes rather than the verb. If it modified the verb, it would be "Sour grapes even produce wine", a whole different meaning.
    The way I understand this, even would be an adverb either way, either describing sour grapes, or production of wine.
    thank you for explaining this with an example. Much of the time my problem is seeing the grammar in English.


    accuratusne sum?
    I was trying to ask "Am i correct?", as you assumed.
    another way to ask the question may be better; nonne accuratus sum? [expecting yes]

    or/ "is it correct? "nonne accuratus est?" [again, expecting yes]


    nonne hi sunt accurati? (these are accurate aren't they?)
    I am using accuratus for the English adjective correct.

    Last edited by john abshire, May 16, 2018
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes.
    Certainly not sunt, which doesn't agree, and for "it" you need the neuter; but I think you'd better say something like rectene scripsi? Accuratus doesn't seem to have been used that way.
  9. john abshire Member


    I will investigate rectene scripsi
    thank you


    for rectene scripsi?, I translate; Have i written (this) correctly?
    where recte (adverb) = vertically; rightly; correctly, properly, well
    and scripsi is the 1st person perfect tense of scribo, scribere, scripsi, scriptum.
    rectene scripsi?
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes.
  11. john abshire Member


    I looked at this thread and commented on the referenced post, i.e.
    I found in an old Latin textbook (brooklyn high school 1917) where etiam is both a conjunction and an adverb.
    etiam conj and adverb= and also; also, even

    thank you pacifica.
    you are a big help.
  12. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    NP.

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