Androclus and the Lion

By gerases, in 'Latin to English Translation', Jul 8, 2010.

  1. gerases Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati
    This is from a Latin reader, I've been going through. A couple of sentences I'm not sure about.

    1. Apion, doctus homo, vidisse se Romae scripsit recognitionem inter sese mutuam ex vetere notitia hominis et leonis [...]
    Here, " inter sese mutuam ex vetere notitia hominis et leonis" is what's giving me trouble.

    2. [...] Multae ibi saevientes ferae erant, sed praeter alia omnia leonum immanitas admirationi fuit praeterque omnis ceteros unus.
    Here, "praeterque omnis ceteros unus" is the problem for me. The gist is: "beyond any one", but "omnis" is really why I'm writing.

    Thanks!
  2. Damoetas Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Chicago
    Take this whole phrase together:

    recognitionem inter sese mutuam ex vetere notitia hominis et leonis

    The recognition was 1) inter sese mutuam (mutual between the two of them, i.e. in both directions), 2) ex vetere notitia (as a result of an old acquaintance/relationship) 3) hominis et leonis - between a man and a lion. I think this last part goes more closely with recognitionem, not notitia - it's a "recognition between a man and a lion," i.e. subjective genitive. Probably this phrase is left till the end of the sentence because it is the most dramatic and interesting revelation.

    On the next one:

    "There were many savage beasts there, but more than all other things (praeter alia omnia) the huge size of the lions amazed him/them, and more than all the other [lions] (praeter omnis ceteros - omnis is acc. pl.), one [lion] in particular (unus)."
  3. gerases Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati
    What got me was thinking that 'sese' referred to Apion, not to the lion and man.

    Accusative plural? Why not "omnes"?
  4. Damoetas Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ah yes - it does look like that when you first get that far in the sentence. I think what forces the reanalysis is when you get farther along and see hominis et leonis. It would be unlikely for hominis to refer to himself, so you conclude, "It must be a different man." And as you read on, this becomes more clear.

    Third declension I-stem nouns and adjectives very often have -is instead of -es as the accusative plural. There's some variation in manuscripts, and beginning texts sometimes regularize everything to -es. (I don't remember all the details of what other classes of nouns/adjectives can have -is - but it would be listed in a good reference grammar.)
  5. gerases Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Thanks, I got it -- thanks to you!
  6. Damoetas Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Chicago
    PS. on I-stem nouns, I should have added that the accusative plural is a long I: -īs, not -is. So it sounds different from the genitive singular (and scans differently in poetry).

    Anyway, glad to help! That looks like a fun story (I looked up the original from Gellius online) and very good for practice.
  7. gerases Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Cool. Appreciate your comments. Wheelock I think mentioned the rule but I must have forgotten it.

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