as above so below

By chaosWyrM, in 'English to Latin Translation', Apr 19, 2012.

  1. chaosWyrM New Member


    im working on a tattoo design. i want to have the magician tarot card tattooed on my forearm with the saying "as above so below" in latin under it. in short the basic premise is that the magician is able to connect his will (the mind) with the spiritual world (above) and physical world (below)...allowing him to tap into the spiritual world to effect the physical world.

    so what one can achieve in the spiritual world can be achieved in the physical as well:

    as above so below

    thank you for your help.
  2. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Hmm, one way of saying it might be:

    1) Ut apud Superos, ita apud vivos (or to avoid the repetition): 2) Ut apud Superos, ita vivis OR 3) Ut apud Superos, ita nobis


    Which would mean literally:
    1) & 2) As with/in the presence of divinity, so with the living ones.
    3) As with/in the presence of divinity, so to us.
    (Romans had lot of lower and higher divinities (numina), various "ghosts"... as a traditional polytheistic society)

    But somebody might come with a better idea.
  3. Batavus_II Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Thinking this was about cross-references in books I was going to say ut supra, sic et infra / sicut supra, et infra, but this is a completely different matter. When used in the sense meant above it is apparently a quote from the pseudo-Aristotelian Secretum secretorum. This Wikipedia page has a Latin version, translated from Arabic, which reads Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius.
  4. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    OH.. I was in temptation to use in opposition to Superos something containing the root of Infer** but the result was that I was just describing the Underworld :D

    Edit1 for chaosWyrm: Now it occurred to me that instead of "apud vivos" we could say "apud mortales" (and for "vivis" -> "mortalibus") which would substitute "the living ones" for "mortals"
  5. chaosWyrM New Member

    thanks so much...

    so can i use just
    quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius

    can you explain the difference in meaning between that and ut supra sic et infra please? for aesthetic purposes ut supra sic et infra works much better for the tattoo design, but i certainly wont use it if the meaning is incorrect. if i need to use the longer one than thats just what ill do.
  6. Batavus_II Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I don't think that the supra / infra version is necessarily wrong, but to me it just has a very specific "bookish" connotation because the terms supra and infra are so often used for cross-references ("cf. supra", "vide infra"). But others may disagree.
  7. Nikolaos schmikolaos

    • Censor
    "second verse, same as the first!"
  8. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    So does the english. You could always do ut in caelis sic in terris
  9. Hermes Trismegistus Member

    Ut supra, ita infra.. would it be so? literally?
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, that would work as well.
    Hermes Trismegistus likes this.

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