Assorted Lucretius questions

By aegor, in 'Reading Latin', Aug 21, 2018.

  1. aegor magister

    • Civis Illustris
    Book 1:
    156-7: quas ob res ubi viderimus nil posse creari/ de nilo, tum quod sequimur iam rectius inde perspiciemus

    tum correlates with ubi, but I am not sure how to read iam...inde. Is the form merely emphatic? Is the inde introducing logical relation (i.e. "from that [recognition]") or intensifying the tum?

    966: usque adeo etc.

    I am having trouble interpreting what the usque adeo is actually referring to. My commentary says that it should be taken with in omnis...partis, but it still seems to like a referent or antecedent.

    Book 2:
    11: [queas...videre...] certare ingenio, contendere nobilitate

    Are these ablatives of respect? Lewis and Short did not have the abl. of respect construction in the entries for the two verbs, but I am not sure what else they wouldbe.

    41: si non forte tuas legiones per loca campi/ fervere cum videas belli simulacra cientis

    Why is videas subjunctive? It seems to be a circumstantial cum clause in primary sequence, in which I would expect the indicative.

    40-49: These lines in general are a bit confusing. The basic idea seems to me to be that perhaps superstitious fears and fear of death would flee if we had legions we were training. I am not able to make the connection -- is it simply that having physical might allays fears? L. in 47 dismisses ridicula haec ludibria. Does haec refer to having legions or practicing/simulating war with legions? Dismissing the latter as frivolous does not seem to be sufficient to simultaneously dismiss the former as equally frivolous.

    My commentary asks rhetorically, "Why does Lucretius here describe military exercises rather than an actual military engagement?" Perhaps because of my comprehension issues, I have no answer. Thoughts?

    53-4: ...quid dubitas quin omni' sit haec rationi' potestas?/ omnis cum in tenebris praesertim vita laboret.

    I am not sure what the rationi' potestas actually refers to. Does it refer to the power of the mind to possess fears and concerns not diminished by the things in the aforementioned lines or the power of the mind to loosen itself from those fears and concerns? This seems like it would influence the interpretation of line 54.

    118: proelia pugna

    Both direct objects of edere with asyndeton?

    119: certantia

    My commentary states that this is nominative plural with corpora (117). This seems like a typographical error -- surely it is accusative given that corpora is a subject accusative in OO?
  2. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    (I need to read more Lucretius, so don't take these comments too seriously.)

    iam inde together seems fairly common. Something like, "at that very moment," or even "thereafter".
    I don't know the context, but like, "all the way in every direction"?
    Probably? It reminded me of this from the Aeneid (V.485-6): protinus Aeneas celeri certare sagitta / invitat qui forte velint (which is very literally of means).

    Also, what do you mean about the L&S entries?
    Not sure. Indefinite second person?
    In L&S's entry for edere, they have pugnasque (which would make the line hypermetric).
    Yeah, seems like it.


    I left out II.40-9 and II.53-4, but I might take a look at those two sometime.

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