Benefits of Studying Latin

By Akela, in 'General Latin Chat (English)', Jul 21, 2010.

  1. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    How would an ablative absolute help the situation if there is no participle available?
  2. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    I guess she means if the participle were transitive and had a direct object, in which case the direct object could be made into an ablative absolute with passive meaning. It wouldn't work with Infacundus's particular example, though.
  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I mean a passive ablative absolute instead the non-extant active past participle.

    E.g. "Having closed the door, he left" = clausa porta abiit ("The door having been closed, he left").
  4. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Ah, ok. Unless I suppose the person was running a race, or such.
  5. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Actually, impersonal passive ablative absolutes aren't inexistent, though I recognize they aren't the most common construction and in this case I would very much hesitate as to the idiomaticity of curso abiit.
  6. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    I was just wondering about this, actually, and trying to figure out how it might work. So this would simply be a one-word ablative absolute (curso)? I suppose it would need to be...
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'm not sure I've ever seen one that was really only one word as in curso abiit, in fact; I wonder whether there wasn't always an adverb or such with it. Maybe something like, say, ter circum arborem curso, abiit, would be a bit less odd, though I still wouldn't put my money on it. It definitely is possible and makes sense in theory, but whether this particular sentence, with this particular verb, etc., would be idiomatic is another matter.
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    So as to give one authentic example of the construction, here's one I've managed to remember and find back, from Apuleius:

    Ibi corpus splendentibus linteis coopertum introductis quibusdam septem testibus manu revelat et diutine insuper fleto obtestata fidem praesentium singula demonstrat anxie, verba concepta de industria quodam tabulis praenotante.
    Callaina likes this.
  9. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    So it works even with intransitive verbs...
    I think I've seen something similar with dubio as well, which I figured was technically an adjective.
  10. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Though apparently "inexistent" is a valid word (I'd never heard it, actually) "nonexistent" is by far more frequent in English. (Just so you know.)
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    You mean something like, say, dubio num faciendum aliquid sit necne, non facio, (very literally) "It being doubtful whether something must be done or not, I don't do it"?
  12. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    I was well aware of impersonal ablatives absolute, so there was no need to furnish examples. I didn't mention them because they're unlikely to be used in the kind of expression we're dealing with and are far from common in the first place.
  13. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Ok, I said as much myself. ;)

    I didn't furnish the example for you in particular, but just for anyone who might not know about it and might be interested.
  14. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Like me, so thank you :D (I mean, I'd guessed that they could exist and was about to ask, but had never seen one...)
  15. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    The example I had in mind turned out to be this:

    'it [not at all] being doubtful...'
  16. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    If I remember correctly, Livy tends to use words like dubio and incerto as impersonal ablatives absolute quite a bit. Is this from Livy as well?
  17. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, it was in a scene from Ab Urbe Condita.
  18. Alphege New Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Learning Latin is good for older people. It stops fogetfulness.
  19. Aurifex Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Location:
    England
    Retards, perhaps.
  20. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    No need for that sort of abuse.

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