Birth certificate

By Hallomotto, in 'Original Manuscripts', May 5, 2018.

  1. Hallomotto New Member

    The text is taken from a birth extract. It is located under the name of the person concerned.
    The extract is actually a piece of paper on which the priest drew a table by hand and completed it.

    I cannot read the third word.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf3jm1c21m2uynh/AU.PNG?dl=0
    Lysandra likes this.
  2. Westcott Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Looks like Arienses to me. Unfortunately I can't find such a word in my dictionaries. Is it a surname?
    Hallomotto likes this.
  3. Hallomotto New Member

  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    That link doesn't work for me.
  5. Hallomotto New Member

  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Do you know anything of the geographical origin of the omnes personae in question? I'm asking this because the ending of the mystery word does look like -enses, a suffix frequently denoting geographical origin, so if you knew where they were from we could perhaps guess from there what the word might be (if it is indeed the sort of adjective I'm thinking about).
    Hallomotto likes this.
  7. Hallomotto New Member

    I'm not sure which people are involved, but Tekla and her family lived in Eastern Galicia - today it's the Zboriv Raion in Ternopil Oblast in western Ukraine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zboriv_Raion).
    Villages: Seredyńce (ukr. Серединці / Seredyntsi), Kokutkowce (ukr. Кокутківці / Kokutkivtsi), Isypowce (ukr. Висипівці / Vysypivci).
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    None of those place names seem like they could be related to the mystery word. I remain clueless.
  9. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I'm not good at deciphering this sort of thing. Can anyone read what's on the lower right, and is that a date of 1944 -- in other words, a note made long after the original document was drawn up?
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I can't read the words, but I can see what looks like a date of 27 January 1944.
    Hallomotto likes this.
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    There's 24/IV 1910 under data natorum, so if that indeed is the birth date of the person concerned, I guess the date of 1944 isn't so long after it, in the grand scheme of things. Could it be the date of her death? Just a wild guess... Or of her wedding?
    Hallomotto likes this.
  12. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, I was going by that 1910 date.

    If that's the case, perhaps one can hazard the guess that arienses is here used in the sense of 'Aryan' in the Nazi sense of the word, given that non-Jewish ancestry would have been important to establish in that area at the time, being under German occupation. I have no evidence whatsoever that the Latin word was used in this way at any point in time, but it would at least make sense.
    Hallomotto and Pacifica like this.
  13. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    A whole damn lot of sense indeed. You're awesome.
  14. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I'm flattered, but it's a logical hypothesis about what it would be necessary to note on a birth certificate at that date in an area with a sizeable Jewish population.
    Hallomotto likes this.
  15. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I can see that it's a very logical hypothesis, but you needed to think of it. Aryans failed to come to my mind in spite of the obvious resemblance of it and the Latin word, and I was so focused on the mystery word that I paid little attention to what was around and didn't notice the date. Now I guess you can choose between two hypotheses: either you're awesome or I'm a moron.
  16. Hallomotto New Member

    I am very impressed that the riddle has been solved.

    Tekla was Polish and lived in occupied Poland by the Germans.

    The year 1944 is the date of issue of the birth extract. The word you couldn't read is the name of the village where her parish was - Kokutkowce.

    So that makes sense.

    In 1945, she was forced to leave her native village, where her ancestors lived for over 300 years, because Ukrainian nationalists began murdering Polish people, including her family. She died in 2000 in a free Poland. I am her great-grandchild.

    Thank you very much.

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