Bone Deus, Carrane erit ne aliquando finis mendaciorum & calumniarum

By Bruodinus, in 'Latin to English Translation', Oct 9, 2014.

  1. Bruodinus Member

    Hello all,
    I have a rather longish paragraph to be translate by someone willing to give it a little time.
    Basically it is a text written by a man who is criticising another man (his nickname being Carrane) about the latter's apparent inaccurate writings about the living conditions and habitations of a place. The man who wrote the text is very critical and uses inflammatory language in his lampooning of the other's views. I sort of understand the general context but would need help in arriving at an actual translation of it.
    Anybody out there willing to give it a go?:) I trust that the below is faithful to the original spelling, by do shout out if clarification is needed. The text is from the 17th century.

    Bone Deus, Carrane erit ne aliquando finis mendaciorum & calumniarum, quibus innocentes in pace requiescentes diffamas? ex ijs quae dixi n.2 6& 27 huju capitis abunde lectoribus constabit, hae que sine frote scribis, non argumenta esse, sed procacis linguae impudentissimas fabulas, quae alio non stabiliuntur fulcro, quam tua authoritate, quae inter viros probos nullius est fidei.
    Non ita pridem Theologum infelici successu egist; jam Carrane mechanicum more tuae prosapiae agis; transtra que e navibus furaris, ut ope tuae falcis a Bruodinis Mandras construas, quas relicta calce, bitumine, & argilla, quibus Tuamonia, Plerisque incolis abundat, bovinas excrementis obducis. Nisi tu Carrane scarabeus potius effes, non haberes in ore tam faetidum pulmentum, & non fingeres, quod in tua Catholica patria, honestorum virorum habitatio, tam absurdo linere tur excremento. Mi Carrane non Tuomoniensis, sed transsinnanus es tu verna; quid ergo in Tuomonia nostra habuisti quod ageres, in qua vix subsistere integrum tibi fuisset quare mihi Carrane facile persvadeo te nunquam fuisse ausum illam patriam visitare, & consequenter hae qua hic comminisceris, reclamante tua conscientia, in odium P.Bruodini te finxisse nam Bruodini nostri, more aliorum patriae multorum Nobilium, honorates semper habuerunt Aedes multas, quas primarij Proceres, Nobiles, Praelati, & Ecclesiastici, non solum Tuomoniae, sed etiam, vicinorum comitatuum, & provinciarum frequenter visitarunt, & intrarunt.
  2. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    Are you sure that it is "frote"? Can you check it again?
  3. Bruodinus Member

    yes it is, but there looks to be an accent 'mark' over the 'o' in frote.
  4. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    Perhaps it is "fraude".
  5. Bruodinus Member

    not sure. But it is written as I have said.
  6. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    It's probably sine fronte 'without shame/shamelessly'.
    The mark over the o is a vinculum, which indicates that an abbreviated nasal consonant follows (in this case 'n').
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  7. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    And didn't know that it could also mean "shame", thanks!

    Tur sounds weird too, I don't know it.
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  8. Bruodinus Member

    I think that should actually read: lineretur excrement.

    Sorry, the printed version is not very clear.
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  9. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    Good God, will ever be, Carranus, the end of the lies and fallacies, by which you defame the innocents who rest in peace? From those that I said n. 26 and 27 of this chapter, it will be abundantly evident to the readers, that those things that you write without shame are not arguments, but the most impudent tales of an insolent tongue, that are not supported by any post other than your authority, that among the honest men is not of any credibility.
    Not likewise long ago you acted as a theologist with miserable success, now, Carranus, you act as a mechanic according to the custom of your family; the transoms you steal from the ships, so that by means of your sickle you would gather from the Bruondins cow cattles, that you cover in excrements, having forsaken the heel, the bitumen and clay, of which Tuamonia(???) is rich, and of very many inhabitants. If you weren't rather a beetle, Carranus, you wouldn't have such a fetid sauce in your mouth, and you wouldn't pretend that in your Catholic homeland, home of honorable men, it would be besmeared with such an absurd excrement. My Carranus, you are not Tuomonian(???), but you are a Transinnian(???) native; what therefore you had to do in our Tuomonia(???), in which you could barely remain untouched, by which means Carranus I easily convince myself that you never dared to visit that homeland and consequently those things that you invent here, even if your conscience protests, you made them up in adversion of P. Bruodinus, infact our Bruodinuses, according to the usage of many other nobles of the homeland, always honoured many temples(?), that the principal chiefs, nobles, prelates and Church officers often visited and entered, not only of Tuomonia(???) but also of neightbouring comitates(?) and provinces.

    Not sure about the integrum and the cattle part, others should be ok more or less, wait for other opinions. Also you sure that it is bovinas and not bovinis?
    Last edited by Laurentius, Oct 9, 2014
  10. Bruodinus Member

    many thanks indeed!
    comitates should be 'counties'.
    Tuomonia in English is 'Thomond'.

    is habuerunt what you are unsure of as meaning houses? Any other views on this sentence.
    Yes, the cattle part seems a bit strange.

    you are right - it is bovinis and not bovinas

    Once again, many thanks for your effort - it is brilliant.
  11. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    Then it is not "cow cattles" but "cow excrements".
    Well not sure, it will need some corrections maybe. Wait for other opinions.
  12. Bruodinus Member

    I think this is closer to the mark. I think it refers to the plastering of walls of buildings with cow dung - a form of 'wattle and dub' used in many pre-modern domestic houses.

    In a passage immediately prior to this it is said that the houses were....'stramine contecta, & introsus bovino stercore, illinita satis liquet' [smeared on the inside with suitably liquefied cow dung]

    So I think the discussion refers to this.

    Once again, thanks for your great input:)
  13. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Cleaning up the translation a bit:

    ...but rather the impudent tales of an insolent tongue that rest on no other basis than your own authority, which can find no credence amongst upright men. Not so long ago you played the theologian, with unhappy result; now, Carranus, you are playing the mechanic/engineer after the manner of your family; and you plunder ships for their transoms, so that with the aid of your [scythe/hook from the Bruodinos?] you can construct cattle pens, which you, leaving behind the lime, pitch, and argil that Thommond abundantly affords to the majority of its inhabitants, instead overspread with cattle excrement.

    Don't have time to check the rest now.
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  14. Bruodinus Member

    Happy for other views on this. I am not too sure if it reads well as: you would gather from the 'Bruondins cow excrements, that you cover in excrements....'
    Any other views on: more aliorum patriae multorum Nobilium, honorates semper habuerunt Aedes multas, quas primarij Proceres, Nobiles, Praelati, & Ecclesiastici, non solum Tuomoniae...

    I am not sure about the translation of 'temples'. I don't think this is right - I think it must be houses or something similar.

    Imber Ranae - many thanks for cleaning that up - it reads well.
    DO you have a view on the temple/houses issue [see my post above]?
    :) thanks for your help!
  15. Laurentius Man of Culture

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    I thought that he meant that too, but the way he wrote it sounded weird. Can he do that?
  16. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    See § II. D. in Lewis and Short.
    You mean using non ita before an adverb rather than an adjective? I don't know that I've seen it before, but it seems natural enough to me.
    Aedes appears to mean 'shrines' here.
    No problem.

    Anyway, here's the rest of it:

    Good God, Carranus, will there ever be an end to the lies and calumnies with which you defame the innocent while they rest in peace? From that which I mentioned [in] n[otes] 26 and 27 of this chapter, it will be abundantly evident to the readers that the things you shamelessly pen are not arguments, but the impudent tales of an insolent tongue that rest on no other basis than your own authority, which can find no credence amongst upright men.

    Not so long ago you played the theologian, with unhappy result; now, Carranus, you are playing the engineer after the manner of your family; and you plunder ships for their transoms, so that with the aid of your falx* [passed down?] from the MacBrodies you can construct cattle pens, which you, leaving behind the lime, pitch, and argil that Thomond abundantly affords to the majority of its inhabitants, instead overspread with cow manure.

    Were you not, Carranus, rather a dungbeetle, you wouldn't have in your mouth such stinking titbits, and you wouldn't pretend that in your Catholic homeland the dwelling-place of so many honourable men could be befouled with such senseless feculence. My dear Carranus, you are not a native of Thomond, but come from across the Shannon; so what, then, had you to do in our Thomond, where you would have scarcely been at liberty to tarry?

    And on this account, Carranus, do I easily convince myself that you never dared visit that country, and consequently the things you invent here, though your conscience protests, you contrived in hostility towards P. MacBrody; for our MacBrodies, in the manner of many other noblemen of the country, always held in honour the many shrines which the foremost chiefs, nobles, prelates, and ecclesiastics, not only those of Thomond, but also of the neighbouring counties and provinces, would frequently visit and enter.


    *It isn't clear what exactly is meant by falx. The words a Bruodinis seem to suggest it's some kind of an heirloom weapon. A shillelagh, perhaps? The term falx would normally indicate something closer to a polearm, though.

    †This is my best guess as to what transsinnanus means.
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  17. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

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    The rest:

    ...if you weren’t a dung-beetle, Carranus, you wouldn’t spew such rotten garbage from your mouth, and you wouldn’t make the absurd claim that in your Catholic country the homes of decent folk are plastered with cow excrement! My dear Carranus, you aren’t a Thomandian, but a Transnisssian, born and raised. So what business did you have in Thomand, where it could scarcely have been within your means to stay? Therefore, my dear Carranus, I’m quite convinced that you’ve never ventured to come to our land, and that, despite the best efforts of your conscience, you simply made up all this libelous nonsense you’ve written about P. Bruodinus. Certainly the Broudini, like many other nobles of our land, have respected the many churches frequented by the leading princes, nobles, prelates, and church officials of not only Thomand, but also of neighboring counties and provinces.

    Fantastic timing on my part
    Last edited by Infacundus, Oct 10, 2014
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  18. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

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    Haha, getting a long translation ninja'd is the worst.
  19. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    The noun habitatio, which is nominative. But maybe it was meant to be habitaculo, and thus in apposition with patria? Your rendering does seem to make a bit more sense.
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  20. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    I did interpret honestorum virorum habitatio as an appositive based on the commas placed around it (I'm not sure if the OP added them or not)



    edit: I would've also expected to see habitatione (or habitaculo*) but I figured that the author may have slipped up
    Last edited by Infacundus, Oct 10, 2014
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