By LVCVS, in 'Incorrect/Pseudo Latin Phrases', Jan 8, 2017.

  1. LVCVS New Member

    There is an album of black metal group Mayhem called "DE MYSTERIIS DOM SATHANAS".
    Is this ever any Latin? I think it is wrong, but not quite sure. They say that it is supposed to mean: "about the secret rites of master Satan" If I translated such phrase, it would be: "De mysteriis domini Satanae". Is it a good translation?
    The name Satan is inflected in greek manner, isn't it? The genitive case should be "Satanae". My doubt is about declension of such names, whether they must be inflected or not. Here is an example from Nova Vulgata, where the name of Adam is not inflected: "Hic est liber generationis Adam." Should be "Adae", shouldn't it?
    Why is this name written by "th"? Is this a valid variant?
    Abbreviation "DOM" for "domini"? Is this proper? Did it occur in any Latin text? I have seen such abbreviation and it was "domini optimo maximo".
    Thank you in advance for your responses, and excuse me my poor English - hope everything is understandable.
  2. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    in orbe lacteo
    Satan seems to be either indeclined as "Satan" or "Statanas, Satanae", so I can't see "Sathanas" being right as genitive singular.
    Adam seems to be almost always indeclinable.

    I don't know about abbreviations though.
    "domini optimo maximo" seems a bit strange. Did you mean "domino"?
    LVCVS likes this.
  3. LVCVS New Member

    Yes I mean domino. It was a typo.
  4. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Latin phrases are very popular in black metal lyrics and song/album names, both those of Mayhem and others, but I've yet to see a correct one. I guess they look very evil typing satanic phrases into Google Translate.

    Ordo ad chao to take another example. Great album though.
  5. LVCVS New Member

    I haven't listened to this yet, but I'm going to.

    from order to chaos - right?
    Last edited by LVCVS, Jan 8, 2017
  6. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    If you're a fan of Mayhem/BM in general, you really should. There's nothing like it. Will take some time to grow on you, though, so be patient.
  7. LVCVS New Member

    Anyway I'm looking for some good (black)metal band singing in correct Latin. Can you recommend me any?
  8. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    I haven't come across anything like that. Some BM bands use medieval poetry from their own country as lyrics, but I'm not sure there are any that would "identify" with Latin poetry/literature in that way.
  9. LVCVS New Member

    Wrong. Should be Ordine ad chaos.
    I'm confused. What does this title really mean?
  10. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    I guess it's supposed to be "(from) order to chaos". Should be chaos, not chao then, and ordo does not mean "order" in the sense intended.

    Could also be they meant "from chaos", which would be ab/a chao.
    LVCVS likes this.
  11. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    I might be wrong, when I think about it, but I don't believe ordo is antonymous to chaos in Latin, in the same way as order - chaos in English. There's not a very great difference anyhow. Perhaps stabilitas or constantia would be more appropriate?
    Last edited by Araneus, Jan 8, 2017
  12. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    I think The Dark Lord would be pleased at the suffering his fans inflict on us with Google Translate.
  13. LVCVS New Member

    Translation to Latin in Google Translate was launched in September 2010. The album we talk about was released in 1994. So it was rather a human invention. But yes, nowadays Google translator is a truly infernal instrument of torture.
    So to sum up:
    - "Sathanas" is not a valid form of genetive singular. Alternatively it could be "Satanas" but never "Sathanas" with "h" after "t" (I could swear I saw the form "Sathanas" somewhere );
    - The abbreviation "DOM" is not proper for the word "domini'. Same abbreviation with dots between the letters means "domino optimo maximo". (BTW Latin abbreviations are very interesting. I'd like to learn more about it.)
    - "De mysteriis domini Satanae/Satanas" could be better translation for "about the secret rites of master Satan"
    Thank you for your responses.
  14. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Sathanas with "th" may be an old (perhaps medieval) misspelling. But you should expect Satanas to become Satanae (alternatively spelled Satanæ/Satane in post classical text) in the genitive. This is what you find in the Vulgate (the Latin bible).
    Satan, as an alternative would be indeclinable, hence Satan in the genitive as well.

    Ergo De mysteriis domini Satanae/Satan
    LVCVS likes this.

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