et voluntate et legibus; populi Romani nomen

By Anonymous, in 'Latin to English Translation', Aug 14, 2006.

  1. Anonymous Guest

    i need help translating this, i think i know what is but not too sure,
    et voluntate et legibus


    populi Romani nomen

    also i need help with finding english derivatives of maiores, in relation to 'maiores nostri' which means 'our ancestors' also how are the meanings of latin and english world related?

    any help would be greatly appreciated

    thank you
  2. Anonymous Guest

    sorry meant to be words at the end not world.
  3. Iynx Consularis

    • Consularis
    Re: need some help with translations and also some derivativ

    et voluntate et legibus means "both by will and by the laws". The phrase occurs in a number of places in the classical corpus, including the Pro Archia of Cicero (though not in the excerpt that was recently featured in the Latin Reading Club in our Latin Chat Section). In the Pro Archia the sense is that not only did Archias desire to be a citizen, he was one according to the Roman laws.

    Once again I am interrupted by Real Life. More soon...
  4. Iynx Consularis

    • Consularis
    1. Well maior, as I suppose you know, is the comparative of magnus, and so means (in its primary sense) "greater".

    On the theory that a bad joke can never be repeated too many times, I will here say again that Curculio minor should always be preferred to Curculio major, because it is the lesser of two weevils.

    The English words "major" (relatively big), "major" (army rank), "mayor", "majority", "majuscule", "majordomo", and many others, are all ultimately derived from the Latin. It is interesting to reflect that while we no longer call our ancestors (as the Romans did) "majors", we do call children "minors". It used to be that if there were two brothers in a school, the elder would be Jones (or whatever) Major, and the younger Jones Minor.

    There are some words in English in which the same Indo-European root entered the tongue without passing through Latin, as "megalith" (from Greek) and "maharaja" (from Sanskrit via Hindi).

    2. Populi Romani nomen is a favorite phrase of Cicero's. When I note that it occurs in the Pro Archia within a few sentences of the et voluntate et legibus discussed just above, I begin to wonder whether we are not discussing a homework assignment here.

    In keeping with our usual policy in such cases here, I will therefore refrain from providing a straightforward answer initially, asking you instead what you think that it means. As an intellligent translation of this phrase would seem to require some context, I will provide (for others who may be following the discussion, if not for you) a little more context for the phrase as it is used in the Pro Archia:

    Mithridaticum vero bellum, magnum atque difficile et in multa varietate terra marique versatum, totum ab hoc expressum est: qui libri non modo L. Lucullum, fortissimum et clarissimum virum, verum etiam populi Romani nomen inlustrant.

    If the object is the learning of Latin (as opposed to mere translation) it will likely be much more useful for us to work from your attempt.
  5. Anonymous Guest

    i would believe that it means, name the people of Rome, but do not see how this fits exactly. I am currently looking at the pro Archia, as extra work over the summer to get to know latin more and also understand Cicero, as i will be studying next year as a module.
  6. Cato Consularis

    • Consularis
    Chicago, IL
    It does indeed mean "the name of the people of Rome." The key to understanding the phrase in the context provided by Iynx is to note that the hoc in the previous sentence refers to Archias the poet (imagine Cicero gesturing at the defendant as he recited this word). Qui libri = "whose books", i.e. Archias' books of poetry...and you should be able to interpret the rest.

    I'm also assuming you know who L. Lucullus is in this context; he was the original Roman general in the Mithridatic war, and Archias' patron.

    BTW Iynx, nice work finding the connection between these two questions. That's really above and beyond.
  7. Iynx Consularis

    • Consularis
    I'd like to be sure, Rich87, that you do now understand the phrase in context. What was it that, according to Cicero, Archias' books on the Mithridatic war did for "the name of the people of Rome"?

    If you don't understand, say so, and we'll try to explain it more clearly.

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