First Catilinarian Oration

By leonhartu, in 'Latin Beginners', Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    in orbe lacteo
    I don't know why you put can in parenthesis, as the word potest is in the actual Latin text.
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    - Omnia is implied as the subject of the first verb as well.

    - "Burst out" doesn't agree with "everything", which is singular in English.
    You've got the gist of it, but:

    - It would be better to add "of yours" after "that mind".

    - Just "believe me" would be fine.

    - "Also" is unnecessary.

    - "Butchery/murder and fires" would be better, without articles (the).
    - "You are hold": you mean "you are held". Though teneris undique = maybe "you are caught on all sides".

    - "Each of your choices are clearer" is ungrammatical because "each" is singular, so it should be "each of your choices is clearer". However, "all your plans/intentions are clearer" is a better translation.

    - Recognoscere here means "review/survey".

    - "which it is already permitted you to..." can be rephrased to "and you may now review/survey them with me", which would flow a bit better.
  3. leonhartu New Member


    If all things are elucidated, if all things burst out?
    Change already that mind of yours, believe me, forget butchery and fires.

    You are caught on all sides, all your intentions are clearer than the light to us; and you may now review them with me.

    By the way in "Each of your choices are clearer..." can't "are" agree with "choices" instead of "each"?
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    That's better.
    Well, maybe it can happen by some sort of attraction, I don't know, but strictly, that isn't what's grammatically correct.
  5. leonhartu New Member

    Well, I felt it was necessary since it was written only one time, but I guess it wasn't so.

    Meministine me ante diem XII Kalendas Novembris dicere in senatu fore in armis certo die, qui dies futurus esset ante diem VI Kal. Novembris, C. Manlium, audaciae satellitem atque administrum tuae? Num me fefellit, Catilina, non modo res tanta, tam atrox tamque incredibilis, verum, id quod multo magis est admirandum, dies? Dixi ego idem in senatu caedem te optumatium contulisse in ante diem V Kalendas Novembris, tum cum multi principes civitatis Roma non tam sui conservandi quam tuorum consiliorum reprimendorum causa profugerunt. Num infitiari potes te illo ipso die meis praesidiis, mea diligentia circumclusum commovere te contra rem publicam non potuisse, cum tu discessu ceterorum nostra tamen, qui remansissemus, caede te contentum esse dicebas?

    Do you remember I saying in the senate in 21 October that Gaius Manlius, follower and assistent of your audacity, that was about to be in a certain day with weapons, which day would it be 27 October? It (the day) didn't fool me, Catilina, not only a thing of such size, so atrocious and so incredible, but also, what wise men must admire by a great deal? I was the one who said in the senate (that) your butchery of good men was assigned to 28 October, at a time when many leaders of the city ran away from Rome not so much for the sake of conserving themselves as for the sake of preventing your plans. You can't deny (that) in that very day by my guards, by my diligence having you surrounded you weren't able to move against the state, when in order to the departure of the rest, we who had stayed behind, you would say yourself content to be by (means of) our assassination.
  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Your translation isn't a coherent sentence, so it can't be completely right. If you remove the bolded "that" and "it", it will already cohere a bit better, but there are a few other things:

    - Do you remember I saying... : this is ungrammatical. We say "do you remember me saying", not "I".

    - in 21 October: better "on".

    - was about to be in a certain day with weapons: better "would be in arms on a certain day"

    I'll wait and see if you've got any questions concerning this sentence before I move on to the next.

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