Fortune favors the brave

By Anonymous, in 'English to Latin Translation', May 20, 2006.

  1. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    The font that most looks like Latin writing is simply Times New Roman, in all caps. It looks very much like some Roman inscriptions.

    A font representing Roman handwriting would not be legible today.

    Really, you can use any font you like. English does use the Roman alphabet after all.

    Capitalisation does not matter, as the Romans didn’t even have lower-case versus upper-case.
  2. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    I personally would advise against making a u-v distinction without making an i-j distinction. Although commonly done these days, it is inconsistent and there is absolutely zero justification for it. It should be either ‘adjuvat’ (making the helpful modern distinctions) or ‘adiuuat’ (avoiding making any distinctions not observed by Roman writers).
  3. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    You may want to take a look at this thread.
  4. Anonymous Guest

    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Cheers People, Means alot.

    Specially CHAMÆLEO for all the Posts, Now I'm intrigued to know what your tag stands for now though? (EGO·SVM·REX·RÓMÁNVS·&·SVPER·GRAMMATICAM)


    AVDACES·FORTVNA·IVVAT - Ancient

    FORTES·FORTUNA·ADIUUAT - Roman

    FORTES·FORTUNA·ADJUVAT - Modern

    I'll See what the Tattoo artist thinks will look best, All I really care for is the meaning, and that it reads correctly! :D

    P.S. Also Am I Right in thinking the Translation of AVDACES Is more Audacious/ bold meaning?

    and

    Fortes is more Brave/Strong?
  5. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    You’re mixing stuff up.

    One thing is the vocabulary choice between ‘audācēs’ (‘bold’), ‘audentēs’ (‘daring’), ‘fortēs’ (‘brave’), all of which can optionally end in -īs instead of -ēs.

    Another thing is the writing conventions. In inscriptions, there were only capitals. The letter V was always angular, whether it was a vowel or consonant. The letter I didn’t have a tail, whether it was a vowel or consonant (although it was sometimes made taller, to hint that it was either long or consonantal). Words were separated by dots or nothing at all. Long vowels were sporadically marked with the apex. Letters were joined with ligatures to save space.

    Then there are modern conventions. We generally write in lower case; if we mark long vowels we do it consistently with the macron; we may make a u-v and i-j distinction; we may use ligatures on æ and œ in order to mark them as diphthongs, etc.
  6. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Wouldn't that make the adjectives genitive? Or is this an alternative plural accusative ending for the third declension?
  7. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    It is an alternative accusative plural common in Golden Age Latin.
  8. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    To be genitive, it would have to be -ĭs.
  9. Anonymous Guest

    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    I’m surprised no one has stated!

    AUDENTIS FORTUNA IUVAT as being original from Virgil

    Inscriptions in Italy have the I as an E in to make AUDENTES

    I have a couple of Latin Tattoos & prefer the ancient over modern Latin.

    All Capitols & the U being the original V

    my tattoo states

    AVDENTES FORTVNA IVVAT

    Just depends on your choice but I prefer original when it comes to Latin mottos.
  10. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Surely Cinefactus did so.

    See the Web. ;)
  11. Anonymous Guest

    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Okay guys would it be correct spelling etc to write it
    FORTES·FORTVNA·IVVAT
    Or have I still got the spelling/ meaning wrong?
  12. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Looks fine to me.
  13. Decimvs Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Turnus says it in Book 10 of the Aeneid.

    From Mandelbaum's translation: Aeneid X.385-98

    "Yet there was no despair in daring Turnus...Straightaway he spurs his men with words. He goads: "What you have prayed for, you can do now: break them; Mars is himself within your hands. Let each remember wife and home, recall the bright acts and the glories of his ancestors. Now let us meet them at the water's edge at once, while they are trembling still, with their first footsteps tottering to land; for fortune helps those who dare." So Turnus says and then considers whom to leave in charge of war against the walls."
  14. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    Thanks for that bit.
  15. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    funny ... he dies in the end
  16. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Re: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE. Help please

    The expression was definitely proverbial amongst the Romans. The first recorded occurrence is in Terrence's Phormio as: fortīs fortūna adiuvat.

    Then Cicero says as much in the Tusculan disputations: "Fortes" enim non modo "fortuna adiuvat", ut est in vetere proverbio, sed multo magis ratio, quae quibusdam quasi praeceptis confirmat vim fortitudinis.

    And of course also in Pliny the Younger's letter: 'Fortes' inquit 'fortuna iuvat'.

    Vergil's version appears to be an alteration of his own devising.
  17. danielc New Member

    clarification: "FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE"

    Hi.

    I am having difficulty confirming which is the correct way to translate "FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE"
    I want to get this as a tattoo but i have been doing much research and have found numerous ways of saying it etc etc...

    Please explain the difference for the following 4:

    AUDACES FORTUNA IUVAT

    and

    AUDENTES FORTUNA IUVAT

    and

    FORTES FORTUNA IUVAT

    and

    FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT

    Please could somebody provide the translation for the above?

    Also, what is the name of this font that you use in this forum? (as seen above top left of this page "LATIN FORUM" & in the subject line above.)

    Lastly what does it mean to put dots (.) in between the words in the phrase?

    Your help would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    Daniel.
  18. Nikolaos schmikolaos

    • Censor
    Re: translation "FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE"

    Edited - I had my browser scrolled under the first variation when I was replying. I only saw the bottom three.

    The second (not first, as I said before the edit) one, I think, is the best form. It means "Fortune aids (favors) the brave". Don't go in for a tattoo on my word, though. Wait for someone who knows more about this than myself.

    "Audaces", from the first one, can also mean "brave", but in a somewhat "foolhardy" sense.

    In the third and fourth, "fortes" means "the strong". They basically mean the opposite of the first two - no matter how brave you are, the "strong" will win.

    I am unsure of the third one - I still have trouble discerning what difference the prefix "ad" makes on a verb. I can't think of any real change it would make to the meaning.

    Also - I just looked this up. The second is the one used by Virgil in Aeneid.
  19. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
  20. danielc New Member

    Re: clarification: "FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE"

    Firstly thanks for both of your replies.

    So... what i gather from your replies etc is that "Audentes" means brave/bold and "Fortes" means strong... My question here then is what is the difference between "Audentes" & "Audaces"?

    Whats aslo confusing me however is the difference between "iuvat" , "iuuat" , "juvat" & "adjuvat"?

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