From the Cross Comes Salvation

By starclas, in 'English to Latin Translation', May 14, 2010.

  1. starclas New Member

    I have been looking for a translation of this phrase and I have seen it translated two different ways.

    The phrase is "From the cross, comes salvation."
    I've seen it done 'A Cruce Salus"
    and "De crux crucis salus"

    If anyone can help me with this I would appreciate it. Thank you.
  2. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
    Re: Translation needed

    There is one too many commas in the request.
  3. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Saxonia
    Re: Translation needed

    looks like you got johnned, starclas
  4. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    Re: Translation needed

    LOL

    Salus ex cruce venit is my suggestion.
  5. Akela viam inveniam

    • Princeps Senatus
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Matthaeus' version is correct.
  6. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
    Re: Translation needed

    I have the right to reserve my refusal to translate if there is a basic grammatical error. If the grammar is correct and there is proper context, then I will help translate.
  7. scrabulista Praetor

    • Praetor
    Location:
    Tennessee
    ECCE LIGNUM CRUCIS

    Ecce lignum crucis, in quo salus mundi pependit.
    ¡Venite adoremus!



    Behold the timber of the cross on which Salvation of the world was suspended.
    Come to adore him!


    pependit is active - "on which Salvation of the world hung." -- ed.

    Surely you haven't actually seen De crux crucis salus?
  8. starclas New Member

    De crux cruce salus An online translator spit this out for me.
    It is apparent that "A crucis salus" is the most popular translation on the internet. What is the difference between "crux crucis" and "crucis" in latin? Also, what is the difference between "A" and "de"?


    I have never seen Matthaeus' version before. What does "venit" mean?

    Iohannes Aurum,
    Didn't your mother ever tell you to say nothing at all if you couldn't say something nice?
    I merely copied someone else's grammar to get the most accurate translation.
  9. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
    I want to help you by providing with constructive feedback. It is not a matter of politeness. Constructive feedback is more important than what my mother tells me. Even most teachers would agree or else why do report cards exist?
  10. scrabulista Praetor

    • Praetor
    Location:
    Tennessee
    crucis is the genitive of crux. People new to the language (and programmers with too much hubris) look up "cross" in an English-Latin dictionary and see crux, crucis and assume that is the way to say "cross." However the real deal is that you need to know the grammatical function before you translate. The closest thing to it in English is the pronouns -- "She" is the subject (nominative case), and "her" is the objective form (in Latin these are separated out as dative (indirect object), accusative (direct object), ablative (cruce is ablative). Depending on the context, the genitive - "of" could be "her" or "hers."

    But I digress. De can be "down from" but also "about." A (can be written as Ab before vowels) is "away from."
    Ex is "out of."

    Venit is the 3rd person singular indicative - "it comes." Venite is the 3rd person plural imperative - "O Come," directed to multiple persons. The same line is in the Latin version of "O Come, All Ye Faithful."
  11. Imber Ranae Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I fear Scrabblehack's exhaustive explanation is liable to just cause more confusion for Starclas, as s/he seems to be approaching this with a much too literal conception of how translation works. So, more to the point: Crux crucis is just gibberish, roughly equivalent to "cross's cross" in English. A crucis salus is also grammatically wrong. I think you meant to type a cruce salus, which is the boilerplate version you can find posted all over the web. Only this version, unlike the others you supplied, is grammatically correct like Mattheus's translation.

    With the grammaticality of both established, how to choose between the two? First we can break it down further: Venit in Mattheus's translation means "comes". I'm not sure that this use conforms to Latin idiom, but as it is superfluous anyway it shouldn't matter. Latin tends, more so than English, to drop verbs that can be easily supplied from context, so just disregard venit.

    So that leaves us with:

    a cruce salus
    salus ex cruce


    Word order is looser in Latin than it is in English, so both arrangements are perfectly natural. I would prefer a/ex cruce to come first, stylistically, because it builds anticipation: "From the cross...what? Ah yes, salvation."

    Which leaves us with only the distinction of a versus ex. Going by the literal translations provided by Scrabblehack above, a would seem to be the obvious choice since "salvation comes out of the cross" sounds bizarre in English. But this is too simplistic. One-to-one translations are hardly ever accurate, especially when using figurative language. The fact is that Latin uses ex in many contexts where "out of" in English would sound completely unnatural. One example of such a context could be the well-known Latin natus ex virgine, which means "born of a virgin", not "out of a virgin".

    To be honest I don't know which preposition would be the better fit for this phrase, or whether there's really any difference between the two at all. As is so often the case with unsourced Internet quotations, I can't find the provenance of a cruce salus, so it's hard to say whether it's authoritative. You might as well use it, though, as I can't see any obvious reason to suspect it is incorrect, and it is definitely the more well-established, recognizable version on the web (if that means anything).

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