Video Gladiator (2000): Latin Subtitles Available.

By bathtime, in 'Latin Language Resources', Dec 24, 2017.

  1. bathtime Member

    Santa came early this year! :santa:

    This may perhaps be the first ever contemporary, popular, full length movie ever subbed in Latin which is not based on religion. Correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot find anything else out there...

    The 2hr and 50min movie has been subtitled (about 98% of it) by a person named Gabriele Albarosa—a distinguished university academic in Italy (according to this site where I found the translation and where credit is due). It amounts to nigh 1200 transactions and apparently took 2 years to translate.

    The translation seems to use Latin idioms and speech; it does not try to emulate the English but is translated as it would have been had it been made in those times. It seems as if Gabriele did a lot of research.

    As for the subtitling, I grabbed an English .srt (subtitle) file and threw this translation atop it, replacing the English with Latin subs. I, in no way, can vouch for my accuracy or Gabriele's. I think that some parts were never double-checked with others by Gabriele as per the info on the aforementioned site. Perhaps, after 2 years, they burnt out? Who could blame them if they did?.. As for my work, it was a rushed job; you may see mistakes here and there—please go easy on me! :oops:

    The file seems to sync perfectly with the video (for me, at least)—beginning to end.

    If you are interested, the .srt file is below. Please note that you must procure the movie yourself; this is ONLY the subtitle file!

    If you decide to make changes to the file, such as corrections, I ask that you be courteous enough post the changes here, so we all can benefit. And please do not make corrections with the movie file attached or hardcoded within: the .srt file itself should suffice.

    Let us now enjoy Gladiator in the language which Rome's fathers intended it...

    Merry Christmas! :)

    p.s. The file has a .txt extension as this forum will not allow uploading of .srt extensions. You will have to change the extension to .srt after downloading to use it. Also, you can use any editor to view it's contents; you may clearly see the translation without the need for an .srt file editor if you are curious to peruse it.

    Attached Files:

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  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I've just had a look at a few bits, and there seem to be some mistakes. Although I have only looked at the Latin without the English and so couldn't compare, I can tell that these two sentences don't seem to work:


    Nullus hostis contra quem pugnare superest, Caesar.

    ipse victorem discessit.

    My guess is that what was meant was "nullus hostis superest contra quem pugnes/pugnemus/... (I don't know enough context to tell)" and "ipse victor discessit", respectively.
    Last edited by Pacifica, Dec 24, 2017
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  3. bathtime Member

    The english is here. I am able to easily add the corrections if you guys give them to me.

    Honour Maximus, he won the battle.
    Maximo honores tribue! Ipse victorem discessit.

    discessit,
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=discedo&la=la#lexicon
    Last edited by bathtime, Dec 24, 2017
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    Location:
    Belgium
    I know the meaning of discedo, thanks, but the problem is with victorem: it's in the wrong case and should be victor.
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  5. bathtime Member

    I see it as:

    Maximo honores tribue! Ipse victorem discessit.
    Honour Maximus, he came away (from the battle) victorious.


    Take a look at the examples Perseus supplies:

    Also in milit. lang., to get away, come away, come off in any manner from the battle (victorious, conquered, wounded, etc.); and sometimes to be translated simply to become, to be, etc.:
    superiores,Caes. B. C. 1, 47, 1; so, “superior,Sall. C. 39, 4: “victor,Caes. B. C. 3, 47, 6; cf.: “victor ab hoste,Hor. Ep. 1, 10, 37: “victus,to be conquered, Sall. C. 49, 2: “gravitervulneratus,id. ib. 61, 7 et saep.: “aequo proelio,Caes. B. C. 3, 112, 7; cf.: “aequa manu,Sall. C. 39, 4: “aequo Marte cumVolscis,Liv. 2, 40: “sine detrimento,Caes. B. C. 3, 46, 6 et saep.—Pass. impers.: “a proelio disceditur,Just. 6, 7, 12.—

    Using the first definition (to get away, come away, come off in any manner from the battle), it seems fitting to me. But using the second (and sometimes to be translated simply to become, to be, etc. ) definition, yes; you seem correct.
    Last edited by bathtime, Dec 24, 2017
  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    Location:
    Belgium
    Indeed, you only had to take a look at the examples. ;)

    Discedo doesn't take a direct object. You can't go someone away; someone can't be gone away by you, that doesn't make sense. "Victorious" isn't an object on which "he" performed some action, but "victorious" refers to the subject "he", and so should be nominative.
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  7. bathtime Member

    Okay, I'll change it. Done—Corrections are very easy for me to make. :)
  8. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
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    in orbe lacteo
    Nisi vere moribundus esset, ne nos convocavisset...

    I think this sentence is saying "if he weren't really dying, he wouldn't have summoned us", but surely "non" should be used there, not "ne"?
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  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yep.
  10. bathtime Member

    Thank you. That was what was meant to be said. I corrected this.

    I appreciate you guys helping to correct this. :)
  11. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Just adding: I have seen some of the subtitles on a chat and compared them with the English and they are just bizarre. Some bits seem as a legit very high quality Latin with very nicely used ablative absolutes, sometimes even a good choice of lexicon. Other bits totally ignore some elementary Latin grammar like not putting ablative after "in" where you absolutely, but absolutely need one (and repeatedly, like several instances in one sentence, sometimes even with the verb esse), making English mistakes of the sort putting the present tense after "sī" just like English does when it wants to render a future condition (unambigously) which in Latin is not impossible, but rather inelegant in most cases (unless you really know what you're doing, where you can see this English author obviously didn't). etc.

    I don't recommend anybody spending their time on that translation and my apologies if the author reads this.
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  12. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Admittedly sometimes esse can be followed by in + acc:
    However, I'm not sure whether it's these kinds of instances that are in those subtitles.
    7. Sometimes with esse, habere, etc., in is followed by the acc. (constr. pregn.), to indicate a direction, aim, purpose, etc. (but v. Madvig. Gram. § 230, obs. 2, note, who regards these accusatives as originating in errors of pronunciation); so, esse in potestatem alicujus, to come into and remain in one ' s power : esse in mentem alicui, to come into and be in one ' s mind : esse in conspectum, to appear to and be in sight : esse in usum, to come into use, be used, etc.: quod, qui illam partem urbis tenerent, in eorum potestatem portum futurum intellegebant, Cic. Verr. 2, 5, 38: ut portus in potestatem Locrensium esset, Liv. 24, 1, 13; 2, 14, 4: eam optimam rem publicam esse duco, quae sit in potestatem optimorum, Cic. Leg. 3, 17: neque enim sunt motus in nostram potestatem, Quint. 6, 2, 29: numero mihi in mentem fuit, Plaut. Am. 1, 1, 25; cf.: ecquid in mentem est tibi? id. Bacch. 1, 2, 53: nec prius surrexisse ac militibus in conspectum fuisse, quam, etc., Suet. Aug. 16: quod satis in usum fuit, sublato, ceterum omne incensum est, Liv. 22, 20, 6: ab hospitibus clientibusque suis, ab exteris nationibus, quae in amicitiam populi Romani dicionemque essent, injurias propulsare, Cic. Div. ap. Caecil. 20, 66: adesse in senatum jussit a. d. XIII. Kal. Octobr., id. Phil. 5, 7, 19.—Less freq. with habere: facito in memoriam habeas tuam majorem filiam mihi te despondisse, call or bring to mind, Plaut. Poen. 5, 4, 108: M. Minucium magistrum equitum, ne quid rei bellicae gereret, prope in custodiam habitum,put in prisonkept in prison Liv. 22, 25, 6: reliquos in custodiam habitos, Tac. H. 1, 87.—So rarely with other verbs: pollicetur se provinciam Galliam retenturum in senatus populique Romani potestatem, Cic. Phil. 3, 4, 8. —
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  13. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Well said, Dantius, thanks for that, but you can see it's just a few phrases really (mostly with potestās), the author just casually was putting something which one could charitably interpret as accusative (because the nouns were usually neuter) completely freely. Like "in spatium vītae" where "spatium" was supposed to have this temporal meaning. And again, not impossible to have "in spatium" but it just means something completely else. And even worse cases than this :p
  14. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Ah, I see.
  15. Godmy A Monkey

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    Location:
    Bohemia
    The sentences I saw were these

    1) Miles, tormenta illa te promovere iussi: destinata non feriunt.
    - Soldier, I ordered you to move those catapults forward, they're out of range.

    2) Si, soli, adequitatis in campos patentes, sole fulgente in vultu, nolite timere, quod estis in Elysium et iam mortui!!! Fratres, quod in vitae spatium agimus in aeternum resonat.
    - If you find yourself alone riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled, for you are in Elysium and you're already dead!!!. Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

    My review of the first was:
    Not that bad, but it seems that dēstinō, āre (according to L&S) even in the archers slang rather has the object of the mark/the target than the thing you're going to shoot with. L&S mentions some case of sagittās object somewhere in Mārcus Aurēlius (incidentally), but the exemple is impossible to find and I think it's too weak to support that, so I think a good try, but one should think about rephrasing it differently.

    My main problems were with the second sentence:
    1) followed by a verb rendered in present tense, because.... because it's probably an English speaker who never found out that English doesn't really formally uses the future tense after "if" when expressing future (or the "will" forms mean something different) in the usual English (as long as my knowledge and textbooks go) and that Latin (just like Slavic languages and most probably the Romance ones too) has no intrinsic problem with that (that the English is the outlier here).
    2) the verb "find out oneself" not translated. I don't mind rephrasing stuff, but I think the concepts should by translated 1:1 (or should be preserved 1:1) and there is conceptually a difference in "If you ride to" and "If you find yourself riding to." ... so that was a bit lazy, but not a "Latin" mistake really
    3) in campōs patentēs - here the w-t-f moments begin. You can still imagine how this works with accusatives, right? But it already is wrong in respect to the original where the ablative meaning is absolutely clear and as you continue reading the sentence and other instances of in+acc you can see the writer's just unable to use the ablative after in
    4) quod estis in Elysium <- I really spent a long time looking into how Roman authors used this Greek noun, whether they really treated it as indeclinable, I didn't find any such evidence. And I think you can see the same pattern here as in "in campōs patentēs"
    5) "quod in vītae spatium agimus" <- what is that. I just see the pattern from 3) and 4) continuing here.
    "in spatium" used in Roman authors with a spatial meaning, not temporal... and expressing something completely different.


    There are bits which look really nice in my opinion. But if it's full of such mistakes, + the mistakes that Pacifica mentioned already with accusatives instead of nominatives etc., then I really think (and my deepest apologies to the author) the translation is a crap. :-/
    Last edited by Godmy, Dec 26, 2017
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  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    In defence of destinata non feriunt, destinata could mean "the things aimed at" and be the object of feriunt, rather than refer to tormenta.

    The second sentence is rather awful indeed, especially because of those wrong accusatives.

    How would you render "to find oneself (in such and such place/situation...)", Godmy? I've had to translate similar phrasings before and I, too, didn't exactly render it because I could find no instance of a literal equivalent like se invenire/reperire used in that sense, so I'm not sure it would be idiomatic. But perhaps you've got yet something else in mind that I didn't think of.
    Last edited by Pacifica, Dec 26, 2017
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  17. Godmy A Monkey

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    Bohemia
    Interesting! Didn't thought of that, I was having mild problems with feriunt being objectless, but then I thought the object might just be implied enough in such a general statement for something like this to fly... (I also might have found an example somewhere in Pliny, I think) but your solution seems to be better (a more radical rephrasing from the translator).

    Right, I must admit I was dealing with this problem (in my head) a few days ago, too, as I was confronted with these sentences. The only thing I thought of is to use here something like "tibi vidēris" (or vōbīs vidēminī in this very case) and I know that if you translate it to English the usually way "you seem", it doesn't work that well, but here I think (or at least my language operates that way) that the "tibi" changes things here as opposed if I said something like "mihi vidēris" and if I take my language as directions as how to deal with these personal/reflexive datives (or datives that refer back to the subject) in English it would rather seem to me as some kind of "if you feel [+ing/to]...". I also thought of something like: "Sī [forte] appārueritis in ... [equitantēs*] ....," followed by future I. (in this very sentence)

    But you're right, there are real problems that are to be dealt with and that's also why I didn't necessarily give better alternatives, but hey, at least we know we're ignorant, right :D (unlike some translators)

    *or some participle...
    Last edited by Godmy, Dec 26, 2017
  18. Godmy A Monkey

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    Location:
    Bohemia
    ^ btw. interesting solutions that you proposed, by addings some emphatic particles and similar.
  19. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'm not sure the videri option is best because sibi videri (= to seem to oneself = (as you said) to feel...) often seems to imply that what you feel to be the case may possibly not correspond to reality, while "to find oneself", in the way it is used here, doesn't imply that. Now perhaps there are some situations where sibi videri doesn't either. Even if it does, perhaps it would still sort of work here, after all, because I suppose finding themselves riding in green fields etc. would first feel a bit unreal to those people, even if it turns out to be true. But I'm just unsure.
    I have since deleted that part of my post because I realized it wasn't applicable to this specific case of "if you find yourself riding...", but yeah, perhaps things like that can be used in some contexts.
    By the way, I don't know about other Romance languages, but French doesn't use the future tense after si*. French works like English in that respect, though it differs from it in temporal ("when" and the like) clauses (there it uses the future).

    *At least not when it's truly conditional. We have a concessive si construction which can take the future tense, but a conditional si can never take the future tense (or it's just bad French).
    Last edited by Pacifica, Dec 26, 2017
  20. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    I think I followed exactly the same reasoning here as you did along this paragraph. It's tricky indeed. But I think if I was faced with writing something to a translation, I would choose something less general and more particular to the case in question like the thing I suggested at the end of my original paragraph (not necessarily as I suggested it, but along those lines) or we would have to do way more investigation into the Latin corpus to find a good general solution... (or be creative with some things offered by sorts of Smith & Hall, and so on - although by creative I don't mean "experimental" necessarily or non-Roman, I'm not a fan of that, for sure :) ).

    Mmm, right. It is indeed always so tricky to write something, if there's the possibility that you won't be able to change it in the future/alter it in any way, when you already know that what you like today you may as well dislike tomorrow :p (if you're on the curve of evolution, not stagnation)

    Oh... ok. I must admit I was a bit apprehensive to put the Romance languages to the same group, maybe I should have pointed out some other ones from the Indo-European family, although I didn't expect you might use the present indicative too, my idea was that Romance languages could be creative here with some sort of subjunctive (although I guess the subjunctive would play there probably a similar role as in Latin rather than a simple indication / rather than the vivid future etc.). But thanks for the information, I really should look more into this as to give more correct interlingual statements :)

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