Glossa translation

By COPLAND 3, in 'Latin to English Translation', Aug 18, 2012.

  1. COPLAND 3 Member

    Location:
    Ashland KY
    I am helping a group (from a great site glossae.net) transliterate a work called the glossa ordinaria, and I have just finished Jonah. Its a commentary on the Bible that has glosses on the Scripture. Usually short comments that give interpretations on the passages. I have been posting glosses on this forum, and I am hoping to be able to do it systematically for the book of Jonah since its not that large, and many of you on this forum seem to be able to translate the glosses very quickly. I would love to be able to get that help from you all on here and I will give all the credit to this forum for the translating. The translation will be provided on a site freely for people to us. Any help will be so greatly appreciated, and I will give each one credit for their help. I will begin with a section that I begun...
  2. COPLAND 3 Member

    Location:
    Ashland KY
    Here is what I translated so far

    PROLOGUE TO THE BEGINNING of the prophet Jonah

    Hebrews affirm that the holy Jonah, which was the son of a widow Zarephath; Elias the prophet raised him up from the dead, the mother told him afterwards: Hebrews affirm that the holy Jonah, which was the son of a widow Zarephath; Elijah the prophet raised him up from the dead, the mother told him afterwards: "Now I know that the word of God in the man of God are you, and your mouth is truth (1 Kgs 17:24)." For this reason, the boy was called "son of Amittai." Amittai for the means truth in our language. And he said, Behold, from the fact that Elijah spoke the truth, he is said to be a son who was raised from the truth.

    INCIPIT PROLOGUS IN IONAM PROPHETAM
    Sanctum Ionam hebrei affirmant filium fuisse mulieris vidue Sareptane quem Helias propheta mortuum suscitavit, matre postea dicente ad eum : Nunc cognovi quia vir Dei es tu et verbum Dei in ore tuo est veritas. Ob hanc causam etiam ipsum puerum vocant Amathi. Amathi enim in nostra lingua veritatem sonat. Et ex eo quod verum Helias locutus est, ille qui suscitatus est filius dicitur esse veritatis.


  3. COPLAND 3 Member

    Location:
    Ashland KY
    Here is the following section that is untranslated

    Ideo de veritate columba nascitur quia Iona columba sonat. In condemnationem autem Israel Ionas ad gentes mittitur quod Ninive agente penitentiam illi in malicia perseverant. Temporibus quippe Ieroboe
    a regis Israel qui Deo derelicto cum populo suo in Samaria ydolis sacrificabat. Ionam prophetam fuisse quartus liber regum indicat. Is cum prophetia illuminante peccatores civitatis Ninive Dei misericordiam consecuturos videret ne falsa predicare videretur ad denunciandum interitum eiusdem civitatis ire nolebat. Nam sicut Deus ad Abraam de impietate Sodomorum et Gomorreorum loquens dixit : Clamor Sodomorum et Gomorreorum pervenit ad me. Ira et de Ninive dicitur eo quod ascenderit clamor malicie eius ad eum. Et quia sententia Dei de Sodomis facta minime revocata est, ita et Ionas adversum Niniven prolatam sententiam revocari nolebat, divine dispensationis ignarus qui salutem hominum ad se convertentium magis vult quam interitum. Hoc illi acciderat quod et sancto Heliseo qui filium Sunamitis mulieris mortuum ignoravit. Iona conspectu Dei Ionas fugere se putabat humanum aliquid passus, dicente David : « Quo ibo a spiritu tuo et quo a facie tua fugiam ?
  4. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    So from the truth the dove is born because Jonah the dove cries out. Moreover Jonah is sent to the nations in condemnation of Israel because while Nineveh makes repentance, they persevere in wickedness. Indeed from the time of king Jeroboam of Israel who having forsaken God had been sacrificing to idols with his people in Samaria. The fourth book of kings shows that Jonah had been a prophet. He despite his prophesy illuminating the sins of the city of Nineveh would see them gain the mercy of God, lest he seem to be preaching falsehood he did not wish to go to warn of the destruction of their city. For just as God spoke to Abraham about the impiety of Sodom and Gomorrah saying: "The noise of Sodom and Gomorrh has come to me." so* it is said also about Nineveh because the noise of their evil had ascended unto him.

    *this should be ita, not ira
    Last edited by Cinefactus, Aug 18, 2012
    COPLAND 3 likes this.
  5. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    And because the sentence of god once made was not revoked, so also Jonah did not wish for the sentence brought forward against Niniveh to be revoked, ignorant of the divine dispensation (divinae not divine) which prefers the salvation of men in turning to him rather than destruction (cf 2 Peter 3:9). This happened to him as also to saint Elisha who did not know the son of the Shunammite woman was dead (2 Kings 4:31-2). Jonah thinking he, Jonas, to flee from the sight of God, endured something a little human, David saying: "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?" (Ps 139:7)

    I am really struggling with the last sentence.

    You should be transcribing the medial puncta as commas.
  6. malleolus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    There seem to be various readings of this sentence , among them
    Ideo a conspectu Dei fugere se Jonas putabat , humanum aliquid passus , dicente David

    My take on this
    Therefore Jonah believed he had to flee (from) the sight of God , (aliquid humanum passus) falling victim to a human error, while/as David said :
  7. Aurifex Quaestor

    • Quaestor
    Do you mean transliterating, or transcribing, or indeed translating? One of the second two, I would imagine. In any case, I think you need to have a careful look again at what you have worked on so far.

    Firstly you seem to have duplicated a portion of your translation:

    Then, you have put the translation of the next part in quotes, which suggests it is taken from another source:
    ...though this quoted portion does not seem to make much sense or bear much relation to either the Latin you quote underneath or any of the established English translations I have found online here:
    http://bible.cc/1_kings/17-24.htm

    I am not attempting to run you down, but to remind you that you are engaged in a work of scholarship, and that its ultimate value will be proportional to the care you put into it.
    Last edited by Aurifex, Aug 19, 2012
  8. COPLAND 3 Member

    Location:
    Ashland KY
    I meant transcribe, that's what I get for being in a hurry. I just transcribed the gloss, someone else has edited it, now I am trying to get it translated. Thanks for catching that duplicated portion! I am open for any criticism or pointing out of my mistakes, I've got lots going on at one time with this project, and editing and re-editing is a norm for me.

    As for the Kings quote, I made another error, I have just changed it to "Now by this I know that you are a man of God, and the word of the Lord in your mouth is true."

    Obviously I need to be more careful! Thank you for pointing that out, posting this thread has greatly paid off!!
  9. COPLAND 3 Member

    Location:
    Ashland KY
    Here's my recent edited portion


    The Hebrews affirm that the holy Jonah, which was the son of a widow Zarephath; Elijah the prophet raised him up from the dead, the mother told him afterwards: "Now by this I know that you are a man of God, and the word of the Lord in your mouth is true. (1 Kgs 17:24)." For this reason, the boy was called "son of Amittai." For Amittai means truth in our language. And he said, Behold, from the fact that Elijah spoke the truth, he is said to be a son who was raised from the truth.
  10. Imber Ranae Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    The reading given by COPLAND makes zero grammatical sense, so this must be it.
  11. Batavus_II Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Europe
    quia Iona columba sonat: "because Jonah signifies 'dove'".
  12. Imber Ranae Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    quia Ionas columbam sonat would make more sense.
  13. Batavus_II Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Europe
    I agree that the phrasing is curious, but:
    (1) there is another instance of sonat with the nominative case on p. 544: "quia abdias servus domini in nostro sonat eloquio", and
    (2) the form iona can be explained by the writer's/editor's desire to cite the Hebrew word here rather than the Graecized name. (Admittedly, he does not do so in the case of Abdias.)
  14. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    As far as I can see, the Old Testament uses Iona, and the New Ionas. I couldn't figure out why this text uses both.

    That would make much more sense. The bible he is taking this from definitely says Iona - It is on the left side middle section, towards the end of the first paragraph.

    Much more satisfactory. The reading is columba rather than columbam, but the typesetter could easily have missed a tilde.

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