I need grammar practice!

By Lysandra, in 'General Latin Chat (English)', Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Yes. How about my two questions?
  2. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    The unusual thing about scanning looks like there are too many syllables in the first line so the '-que' in 'locorumque' must elide with 'erramus' in the next.
  3. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Yes.
  4. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania

    Here is the rough version:

    None of your sisters have been heard or seen by me —
    O how do I remember you, maiden? For [there is] not a mortal
    face to you, nor does the voice sound human: O, certainly a goddess —
    a sister of Phoebus? or one of the nymph’s blood? —
    may you be happy, and may you, whoever [you are], lighten our burden,
    and, to where under the sky at last, to which worlds on the coasts
    we should steer, may you show us. We wander ignorant of people and
    places, here by the wind and the vast waves of the shore:
    many a victim will fall before the altars for you by our right hand.’


    I had to look up the meaning of 'iactemur' in this instance. I'm not sure about the 'vastis' and 'fluctibus' agreement, but I couldn't make sense of it any other way.
  5. AoM nulli numeri

    • Civis Illustris
    - quo sub caelo tandem, quibus orbis in oris: look at this line again.

    - iactemur: think essentially iaciamur.

    - acti as 'shore'?
  6. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    I have no idea how I came up with that. :D
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    What is quam here?
    What sort of subjunctive is memorem?
    Check your apostrophe. What number is nympharum?
    Felix has a different meaning here.
    Both "should" and the verb "steer" are wrong.
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    That is correct except for iactemur.
  9. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    I took quam as a conjunction, but the fact you're asking means it's probably not.
    I meant to write nymphs'.
    fortunate
    I notice it's passive so it has to be something more like 'we are cast'.
  10. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    I'm struggling to make sense of the sixth and eighth lines. A hint?
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Indeed, it is not. What else could it be?
    That isn't correct either. Look at all the possible meanings of the word and try to see what makes most sense here.
    Quo agrees with caelo and quibus with oris.

    A more English-like (but not so good in Latin) word order would be sub quo caelo, in quibus oris orbis iactemur. This is an indirect question depending on doceas.

    Aeneas is basically lost and wants to know where on earth he is.

    Acti is the perfect passive participle of ago, in the masculine plural nominative, and vento and vastis fluctibus are the instruments or inanimate agents of the passive participle.
  12. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    ‘None of your sisters have been heard or seen by me —
    O who should I remember you as, maiden? For [there is] not a mortal
    face to you, nor does the voice sound human: O, certainly a goddess —
    a sister of Phoebus? or one of the nymphs’ blood? —
    may you be favourable, and may you, whoever [you are], lighten our burden,
    and may you show us, under which sky at last, on which coasts of the world
    we are cast. We wander ignorant of people and
    places, having come here by the wind and the vast waves:
    many a victim will fall before the altars for you by our right hand.’


    So iactemur must be a subjunctive in an indirect question.
  13. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Memorem is more like "mention/call".

    "Having come" isn't quite right for acti.

    Yes, iactemur is a subjunctive in an indirect question.
    Lysandra likes this.
  14. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    ‘None of your sisters have been heard or seen by me —
    O who should I call you, maiden? For [there is] not a mortal
    face to you, nor does the voice sound human: O, certainly a goddess —
    a sister of Phoebus? or one of the nymphs’ blood? —
    may you be favourable, and may you, whoever [you are], lighten our burden,
    and may you show us, under which sky at last, on which coasts of the world
    we are cast. We wander ignorant of people and
    places, having been driven here by the wind and the vast waves:
    many a victim will fall before the altars for you by our right hand.’

    If you're happy with this, I will do an idiomatic translation.
  15. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    That's OK. Go ahead.
  16. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    ‘I haven’t heard or seen any of your sisters —
    O who should I call you, maiden? For yours is not
    a mortal face, nor does your voice sound human: O, certainly a goddess —
    a sister of Phoebus? or one of the nymphs’ bloodline? —
    may you be favourable, and may you, whoever you are, lighten our burden,
    and may you show us, under which sky, on which coasts of the world
    we are finally cast. We wander ignorant of people and
    places, driven here by the wind and the vast waves:
    many a victim will fall before the altars for you by our hand.’
  17. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I feel that "we are cast" doesn't quite convey the meaning of iactemur. I'm unsure how best to translate it, though. "We are being tossed"? "Driven about"? Maybe someone else will know.

    On the whole, good.

    This bit could even fit into verse!

    For yours is not
    a mortal face, nor does your voice sound human:
    O, certainly a goddess
  18. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    As you said on the Confessions thread your exam is tomorrow, I don't know if you still need any more practice? Perhaps you just want to rest your mind now?
  19. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Tasmania
    I'm up for one more practice question if you are! My exam isn't until 13:00 tomorrow (and doesn't end until 16:15!) so I still have plenty of time both to study and rest my mind as it's only morning here in Australia. However, if you have other things to do, I completely understand. I can always find some other things to study. :D And thank you again for all the help. I feel a bit bad about taking up so much of your time!
  20. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    It's OK, Lysandra. Here's from Augustine:

    sed tamen sine me loqui apud misericordiam tuam, me terram et cinerem sine tamen loqui. quoniam ecce misericordia tua est, non homo, inrisor meus, cui loquor. et tu fortasse inrides me, sed conversus misereberis mei. quid enim est quod volo dicere, domine, nisi quia nescio unde venerim huc, in istam dico vitam mortalem an mortem vitalem?

    1) What are the two loqui's doing?
    2) What are terram and cinerem doing?
    3) What is mei?
    4) What two non-classical constructions are found in this passage?

    + translations.

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