Into your hands I entrust my spirit

By Kojazz, in 'Latin Phrases', May 2, 2009.

  1. Kojazz New Member

    Hi Folks,

    I must say this forum has been an exceptional learning experience for me not just for understanding Latin and it's beauty but to understand the spread of it amongst people.

    It is through reading this that I have been inspired to add a Latin phrase to my current tattoo and sincerely request anyone help in understanding what would be the correct usage of the language.

    There are a few phrases I have picked online though I am unsure as to the correctness of them. This is meant to be an offering to the two women I love in my life, my wife and my mother as a reflection to my spiritual self.

    I would appreciate any corrections and thoughts that anyone could offer to the below or one that you feel reflects a sincere expression of my love and devotion to these women in my life and the Divine God as well.

    In manus tuas commendo spiritum meum - As I understand this means "Into your hands I entrust my spirit"

    Totus Tuus - Totally Yours - This Latin phrase represents the desire to offer ones life in total commitment to another. I was hoping to say "Totus Tuus Dea" (Totally Yours Goddess) or "Totus Tuus Domina" ( Totally Yours Mistress) Or "Totus Tuus Matris" (Totally Yours Mother)

    Servus Divini Dea - servant of the divine goddess (Not sure if this is correct at all or how to say it)

    luceat lux vestra -- let your light shine

    Id also like to be able to say "Let your light shine through your precious" Or "Let your light shine through me"

    Umbra Dei Domina - The Shadow of Mistress (Not sure if this is correct at all)

    Sub tuum praesidium - "Beneath thy compassion" or could also mean "under your protection"

    I'd like to be able to say "Under Your Guidance and Protection" or perhaps "Your precious is guided by your light"
  2. scrabulista Consul

    • Consul
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    "Totus tuus" was Pope John Paul lI's motto.

    Do you actually speak of your wife as a goddess?
  3. Kojazz New Member

    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Yeah I read that as well and love the meaning of it. Though Pope John Paul used it to reflect his devotion to Christ, I thought the meaning could be used differently if it works.
  4. scrabulista Consul

    • Consul
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    It strikes me as creepy and disrespectful, and I'm a lapsed Catholic.

    You might think of it as the American Revolutionaries writing Yankee Doodle, and then putting it to a melody the British soldiers all knew. I don't think this is the effect you intend to achieve, although I could be wrong.
  5. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    This is some quite strange mixing of religious stuff and normal stuff.

    ‘In manūs tuās commendō spīritum meum’. Yep, that sounds fine to me.

    ‘Mistress’? This is starting to sound kinky. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

    You should probably separate the word of address from the rest of the sentence with a comma. This applies to English too.

    To address your mother, you need the word ‘māter’. ‘Mātris’ means ‘mother's’.

    ‘Servus Dīvīnæ Deæ’

    Note that ‘servus’ is normally a slave.

    ‘Divine goddess’ seems redundant to me, especially in Latin.

    ‘Lūcĕat lūx vestra’. Yep, that's fine.

    Is your name Sméagol?

    ‘Vmbra Domĭnæ’.

    ‘Deī’ means ‘god's’.

    ‘Sub præsidĭō et moderātiōne tuā’ or perhaps
    ‘Tē custōdiente et dūcente’
    ‘Under your/thy protection and guidance’.
  6. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Saxonia
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Yes, this is fine, but vestra refers to the plural. If you want it to be singular you should say luceat lux tua
  7. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Just to clarify, in case Kojazz isn't familar with such things, we're talking about whether ‘your’ is singular or plural. If you want to address one person (e.g. your Mrs), then it's ‘tua’. ‘Vestra’ would address both lovely ladies.

    We used to have this concept in English (‘thy’ was singular, and ‘your’ was plural), but we lost it. No one says ‘thy’ any more.
  8. Kojazz New Member

    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Scrabble Hack. I agree. Now that I think about it, the fact that it was Pope John Paul's Motto was so personal and reflective of his devotion, it may not be the best use for me.

    I must admit that I still love the Motto for what it means. Not that I am a devout Catholic by any means I can appreciate the thought and the way it is written.

    Thanks for your thoughts on this as well.
  9. Kojazz New Member

    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

  10. Kojazz New Member

    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help


    Thanks Bitmap, I agree having read a bit more about the use of Latin Vocabulary since last night.

    I think the plural as Chamaleo suggested may work well for both ladies.

    I appreciate the correction.
  11. Kojazz New Member

    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help


    It's such a shame indeed Chamaeleo (Pardon my misspelling of your name in earlier posts) As, somewhat of a writer, I still think the use of old English and words such as "thy" add such character to both written and spoken word. It's such a shame we have lost the beauty of articulation in our language.

    Thanks again for explaining the use of "tua" versus "vestra"
  12. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    Archaisms

    Why then not revive it in real life, actively use it? Let's remind people of their own language, then the confusion betwixt thy and your shall vanish. I often think of the many 'archaisms' in any given language, but who the heck decides what is to be discarded and what new vocabulary to adopt? This discarding has led to an over-simplification of language and grammar, especially in English, with such words like dost thou and wilt not and thine. Why did those words just vanish into thin air, being preserved only in the original KJV of the Bible, Shakespeare, and earlier? Where's the reason in that? I understand language to be a fluid, living thing, but just don't get why certain words go out of fashion. I always thought language is something to be cherished and cultivated, not to be used merely for utilitarian and pragmatic purposes. Chamæleo, since you're the expert on such matters, maybe you could enlighten me on this? Excuse me if I seem too traditional and conservative, but that's just my nature I guess. :)
  13. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    You can revive words here and there for special uses, such as online fora, but language is fundamentally for communication, and therefore it's just not realistic to propose that people fully revive for daily use a form as strange-sounding as ‘thou’.

    It's hard enough getting people to recognise a single standard for each language, in terms of spelling, grammar and pronunciation, without introducing stuff that virtually nobody uses any more.
  14. Kojazz New Member

    Re: Archaisms

    I have to agree with both Mattheus as well as Chamaeleo on this matter.

    I truly wish we could revive the use of the language as it is meant to. I think it is our own fault as a society focused more on communication rather than also understanding the use of language as a linguistic art form and literary expression of the self as well as the social mass. It is important part of our heritage and culture. We invest money in preserving old architecture so why cant we have a similar drive to protect such an important part of human expression.

    Nevertheless language has indeed become more a means of communication as Chamaeleo pointed out. It has become hard enough to remind both the current as well as the new generation on the use of language as more than just that. I truly believe it is an art form, how could it not when it is such a critical part of self expression.

    Today we are dealing with language taking on a whole new direction. Street language has entered the dictionary, new words that are nonsensical and infact from a literary perspective, offensive, are being constantly integrated into spoken language which more than a means of communication has become a part of being fashionable. How then can we say language is just a means of communication.

    On one hand I understand the limitation but on another I feel we almost have to try and protect our linguistic art even if in a small limited way through the help of the few people who believe in the beauty of the language and the importance of its preservation.
  15. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Saxonia
    Re: Archaisms

    This seems to be going off topic

    The usus of the native speakers.

    In complaining about the "simplification" or "deterioration" of English you follow a tradition that is hundreds of years old ... but it doesn't really lead anywhere. From a scientific point of view I don't even think this is justified. English has made up for its lack of grammatical diversity with a tremendous increase in idiomatic expressions. If you're a learner of that language and want to speak it on a moderate, fluid level, grasping its idiomology and getting along with all the prepositions that now make up for the lost cases may give you even more headaches than learning Latin.
    I also don't find the lack of distinction between tu and vos in English simple ... doesn't it actually make the language more complicated?

    Why did Latin have to turn into such awkward languages as French or Spanish? j/k ;)

    This is only true for a very small part of language use. The main purpose of language is pragmatic indeed ... surely you don't recite poems when buying a loaf of bread in the super market ;)
  16. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Yeah, good points, Bitmap. I still believe people shouldn't be so quick to forget their language. Why do archaisms exist in the first place? The usus is relative, isn't it? Human nature is weak and forgetful, it's a vice. But can change be positive? Does this have to do with modern inventions and thinking?
  17. fievos New Member

    Re: Archaisms

    I think the reason "thee" and "thou" disappeared was politeness; using the plural forms of "you" is more polite than the singular (it started as a form of address for monarchs then was broadened out). I

    In some languages they retain the multiple forms and use them to indicate varying degrees of hierarchy and intimacy; Japanese has a dozen or so words for you, from the extremely polite to forms that are basically swear-words. A pop-linguistic answer to why they disappeared is that England was a more democratic country and so people addressed each other by the more polite "you" rather than the more casual (although potentially intimate) "thou".
  18. Chamaeleo New Member

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    Another little fact:

    In Yorkshire, where I went to University, older people still say ‘thou’ (pronounced ‘tha’) in the local dialect.
  19. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Saxonia
    Re: Archaisms

    that sounds like a rather stupid explanation :p
  20. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    Re: A Sincere and Urgent request for help

    So, 'thou' was still spoken, according to Chamaeleo, in the first part of the XXth century, but was gradually being replaced by the more formal 'you'?

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