Judith the mulier :-)

By Rocit, in 'Latin to English Translation', Apr 18, 2014.

  1. Rocit Member

    There's some extremely strange fragment of the text quoting Sabellicus, I couldn't decipher the exact meaning of it.

    Judith mulier vidua, cum ad recens connubium impelletur, cilicium ornatum praetulit, objecitque; libidini jejunium, vigilias somno, & otio laborem, inquit Sabellicus.

    Judith, widowed girl, who's just been forced to marry, dressed herself in a hair-shirt, showed herself (praetulit?) and dashed forward (objecitque?); keeping from passion (libidini jejunium?), in her dream she was awake & otio laborem (what in the world?), says Sabellicus.

    I'd be very grateful if you could clear this fragment out!
  2. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    I get pretty much the ſame:
    'Judith, a widow woman, when first urged to marry, came forth and preſented herself in a hair ſhirt; from pleaſure to abſtinence, from dreaming to vigils, and from leiſure to labour, quoth Sabellicus.'
    The accuſative/ablative pairs without prepoſitions are not eaſy to interpret. I am aſſuming accuſatives of direction and ablatives of ſeparation. Perhaps 'abſtinence for pleaſure, vigils for dreams, and labour for lieſure' might be better.
  3. Rocit Member

    Ah, now I seem to be getting the idea
    Grammar helps
  4. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    Where do you see "dress" and "came forth"? And what is a "hair shirt"?
  5. Rocit Member

    "cilicium ornatum" - dressed in hair-shirt
    Well, the hair-shirt is the dictionary word, I would explain it to you in my native tongue, though I'm afraid you wouldn't understand...))

    Oxford Dictionary says that it's "a shirt of haircloth, formerly worn by penitents and ascetics"
  6. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    "Ornatum" can't mean "dressed" referred to a woman though.
  7. limetrees Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    Judith, a widow woman, when forced into a new marriage, wore an ornate hair-shirt; and preferred abstinence to pleasure, vigils to sleep, and labour to rest, quoth Sabellicus.'

    and I think it should be “impelleretur”, not "impelletur."

    It’s a very ascetic religious version of the Judith and Holofernes story.

    Here are a couple of interesting texts you could read.


    Text 1

    Text 2
    Laurentius and Imber Ranae like this.
  8. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Perhaps just "wakefulness" rather than "vigils".
  9. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    Maybe rather than preferred it is "opposed". Could it be?
  10. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    praetulit makes perfect sense, but how are we rendering objecitque?
  11. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    I can't find the meaning "to wear" among the ones assigned to "praefero", but it probably is it here. ABout "obicio", maybe here it means "she opposed abstinance to pleasure, etc etc".
  12. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    I read praetulit as preferred, and grouped cilicium with ornatum
    ie Judith (cilicium ornatum) praetulit libidini jejunium
  13. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    But then what about "obicio"?
  14. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    That is what I am stuck on ;)
  15. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    Maybe "praefero" could be "to exhibit" instead.
  16. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    It ſeems that nobody is having an eaſy time with this. Might it by any chance be from the ſame book of obſcure images and queſtionable Latin whence Rocit has previouſly favour'd us with other ænigmata?
  17. Aurifex Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Location:
    England
    I'd imagine it just means "put as a barrier to/interposed".

    No, it's from this one.
  18. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    Drat:( bad link.:(
  19. Aurifex Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Location:
    England
    Doesn't surprise me; I can't view Limetrees' "interesting texts".
    The book is called Selecta Emblemata Sacro-Politica, printed in Frankfurt in 1680. You can find it on Google Books. The book is unpaginated but the passage can be found in section XXII, which is entitled "Solus cum Sola".
  20. limetrees Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    Obicio + acc + dat = oppose X to Y , hence my “prefer Y to X”.

    vigilias somno obicere = to set wakefulness against sleep

    Praeferro = put forward, present, show, hence my “wear”
    object = cilicium ornatum

    And (to Aurifex) the links to the texts seem to be working OK for me: they’re just things on how the Judith story got used to keep women chaste

    by the way: what did Della wear? Anybody?

Share This Page

 

Our Latin forum is a community for discussion of all topics relating to Latin language, ancient and medieval world.

Latin Boards on this Forum:

English to Latin, Latin to English translation, general Latin language, Latin grammar, Latine loquere, ancient and medieval world links.