1. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes, statements can be sentences. For example, what I've just written is both a direct statement and a sentence. However, an indirect statement typically isn't a complete sentence. "That the booty was big" is an indirect statement, but it isn't a complete sentence. "The soldier was saying that the booty was big" is a complete sentence, containing the indirect statement "that the booty was big". I don't think "indirect sentence" is a thing (in grammar at least).
  2. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    Oh. Well that clears things up.
  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Translate:

    Marcus putabat domum a Publio aedificari.
  4. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    After we work on indirect objects, we should work on alternating subjunctive tenses (like necavissemus, which I believe would probably be used in a context such as "if we have killed". Subjunctives can mean lots of different things, maybe even "may we have killed" though this last one sounds kinda awkward).

    Also, did you mean putabat in the context of cleaning/clearing up or in the context of reckoning/rationalizing/figuring?
  5. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    puto usually means "to think". The sense of "to clean" or "to prune" is very rare and seems to occur almost only in agricultural writers. Also "to think" is the only meaning that works here.

    This sentence, incidentally, does not contain an indirect object (though it does contain an indirect statement).
  6. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    “Marcus putabat domum a Publio aedificari.”

    Marcus – Singular Noun – A Guy’s Name – Marcus (of course)
    Putabat – 3rd Person Singular Active Indicative Verb – Imperfect Tense - “Was Thinking”
    Domum – Singular Noun – Accusative Case - “The House”
    A – Preposition – Shortened Form of Ab – Imposes Ablative PCR – “By”
    Publio – Singular Noun (Prepositional Object) – A Guy’s Name – Ablative by PCR –Publius”
    Aedificari – Present Passive Infinitive Verb – “To Be Built”

    I believe this would translate as “Marcus was thinking [that] the house [is] to be built by Publius”.
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    No. It means "Marcus was thinking (or "thought") that the/a house was being built by Publius".

    Have you read Ignis Umbra's post on indirect statement that I linked earlier?
  8. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    Yes, I've read it. I think the passive infinitive verb threw me off. I've always had an understanding of active/passive infinitive verbs as meaning "to ___ / to be _____".
  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Your understanding of infinitives is basically right. However, you need to understand that Latin uses some constructions that differ from English, and you need to realize which Latin constructions correspond to which English ones.

    Marcus putabat domum a Publio aedificari is, word for word, "Marcus thought a house to be built by Publius". Now, what does this correspond to in more usual English? It corresponds to "Marcus thought that a house was being built by Publius".

    It doesn't correspond to "Marcus thought that a house is to be built by Publius", for two reasons: 1) "is to be built" has a future meaning, which isn't there in the Latin; 2) it isn't even very grammatically correct to say "Marcus thought that a house is..."
  10. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    Well at least my understanding of it isn't too far off. I guess it's just a matter of getting more practice going from the Latin literal meaning to the English correspondence for these indirect statements.
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Translate:

    Marcus says Publius is sleeping.
  12. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    “Marcus says Publius is sleeping.”

    Marcus – Singular Noun – A Guy’s Name – Marcus (of course)
    Says – 3rd Person Singular Active Indicative Verb – Present Tense - Dicit
    Publius – Singular Noun – Accusative Case (Indirect Statement Conversion) – Publium
    Is – Lost to Conversion (See Below) ↓
    Sleeping – Indirect Statement Conversion – Present Active Infinitive Verb – Dormire

    This would be Marcus dicit Publium dormire.
  13. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes, that's correct.

    Marcus says that Publius has slept.
  14. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    The only difference here would be that we'd replace dormire with dormivisse.
  15. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Correct.

    Now:

    Marcus said that Publius was sleeping.
  16. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    My 1st instinct would be to use an imperfect infinitive, but that doesn't exist. So, I'll just use the present tense.

    Marcus dicit Publium dormire.
  17. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
  18. R. Seltza Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Terra Solis Lapsi
    Sorry. Replace the "c" with an "x".
  19. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Yes, that's correct.

    A helpful guide regarding infinitive translations in indirect statement:
    Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 1.43.54 PM.png
    (HV = head verb, i.e. the form of dico/puto/etc. that introduces the indirect statement)
  20. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Marcus said that Publius had slept.

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