Let us hear and analyse each other's Latin pronunciation

By Godmy, in 'Pronunciation, Spelling and Listen to Latin', Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Yeah, I guess it emulates the experience you would have with a live teacher or over a Skype conversation :) I'm glad if it seemed as a good/interesting experience. And after all: this thread is all about recordings and like this I could pronounce some words myself without just writing about them or making too many separated & disjointed recordings.

    And I have no doubt that you can! Since you've already masked your US linguistic background like so perfectly: this was the first occasion where I was confident enough to say what I think your linguistic background was, which is really really a good result! (Like in your third or fourth recording, right? And just in one small detail...)

    Right. It probably didn't fall unto my inner measuring mechanism of "what is short and what is long vowel depending on the speed of you saying the word" which is a kind of mechanism we apply in my language (Czech) which behaves phonologically just like Latin does (so it provides me some benefits in this matter). But at least I could provide right away what I would consider a suitable way to say it.

    I'm sure I had read/heard about it before, but then I found out that there are actually some discussions about this, that, as far as I remember, it shouldn't be certain at all, so, after some time, I also forgot which one of them should be long or is disputed. Let me link an Aurifex's article on this 'dispute':
    You can read more in the article on the morphological comparison of these two tenses. Imber Ranae also provides some etymological insides on this matter later on in the thread.

    But I mean: I don't argue here really for any position, I'm just trying to elucidate my momentary confusion while listening to your recording and thinking about this issue once more.


    ^Anyway, thanks for the recordings and also the answer.
  2. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    I was very lazy with long vowels and geminated consonants. I'll give it a second shot later.
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  3. Weebl New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Lol, next step, labiovelars! I've been trying those and man are they hard...it's honestly the first time that I've had this much trouble making a sound in an IE language that I've tried to pronounce. How much of a semi-vowel "w" should be in the vowel following the kʷ sound? None?
    Ooh, how does this work? :D
    To further this discussion, the "i" in "fecerimus" scans long in Catullus V, so there must have been, at least in Catullus's time, a distinction in quantity of "i" between fut. perf. and perf. subj.
  4. GregoriusMiles New Member

    Salvete omnes!

    I tried to have a bash at the opening paragraph to Harrius Potter and the first few lines of Ovid's Metamorphosis. Any feedback/critique is welcome :) Whenever I attempt to speak Latin, I try not to slow it down and emphasise the syllables too heavily as this sounds very unnatural to me and unlike a real spoken language. I try to speak it as fluently as possible without butchering the individual vowel and consonant pronunciations but let me know whether I manage this or not and whether you would understand me without the text in front of you. :p

    My native language is English and my accent is ever so slightly Scottish if this helps at all.

    Gratias vobis ago!

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  5. Godmy A Monkey

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    Location:
    Bohemia
    The specifics are actually disputed, but I think my older thread about this in this section might do a better job at this: http://latindiscussion.com/forum/latin/pronunciation-of-qu-restored-pronunciation.24485/

    But yes, it is problematic because of some practical reasons :) (i.e. lack of languages around with the future to imitate properly...)

    No idea, I guess it's just some instinct you develop :p

    Then, we know that poets, if they had a choice - if there were two variants of one form, they would always choose the convenient one for the meter (like ubi ubī, Italia Ītalia), but then I don't mind at all the long ending. I just found myself confused for a while and then I wanted to point at that discussion.

    GregoriusMiles: cool, I'll look at it later.
  6. Godmy A Monkey

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    Location:
    Bohemia
    I'm sending you an audio review of your recordings, Gregorius, but I haven't read properly this message of yours you had attached, so maybe I'm asking you there some things that you already mention here... I'm reading it right now.
    You mostly succeeded :) It sounded very natural... I just had a few things to add.

    Oh my god! You masked your English phonology perfectly! The only place where I had a strong suspicion that there was an English element was in "junctārum" where your "t" was slightly aspirated/affricated in the way that English always does it and which way is usually the difficult thing to overcome for a native speaker of English, granted that they intend to get closer to the restored pronunciation. And you can hear that I listened to it like 5 times, then I decided not to comment on it, because it seemed a bit out of order, given that I thought you were Italian :D

    Maybe also in "coeptis" aspiration of "c" (which shouldn't be there); also "tegit..."

    Nihil est quod agās :)

    corrections:
    - sometimes I say "long syllables" instead of "long vowels"
    - *the Italian phonology

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    Last edited by Godmy, Jul 6, 2016
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  7. GregoriusMiles New Member

    Hey Godmy,

    Thank you very much for your feedback. It was extremely helpful and comprehensive. As somebody who has never had any formal teaching of Latin, I've had to rely upon books and the internet to learn pronunciation. Therefore, it is really valuable to have someone with your level of knowledge give some detailed critique.

    You were spot on with the phonology by the way which is incredibly impressive.:D In addition to being a native English speaker I also 'parlo un po' d'italiano' and I think I subconsciously rely upon the Italian phonology when I attempt to speak Latin. I'm glad to hear that I hide my native accent reasonably well though!
  8. Weebl New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Gasp, here's the next section of In Catilinam (section II). I like reading it; Cicero's words in this speech really do come alive when read out loud. Maybe I'll read the whole thing as a break from studying Caesar. :p

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  9. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Most of it was great... in retrospection: I might have omitted some aspirated "t" and "c", but they probably strong enough for me to notice that you were occasionally doing them... so, nice :)

    Ah, perfect, at least I wasn't completely wrong! :D
  10. Godmy A Monkey

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    Location:
    Bohemia
    Very nice! :) Thanks. Here's my response:

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  11. Weebl New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Quick reading of some cool lines from Propertius I.I. :p

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  12. Cloudfire New Member

    Hello!
    Could you tell something about my pronunciation? I know, I pronounce long vowels not fine because in my first languages (Russian and Hebrew) there are none.
    The second file is a verse we leared at University.

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  13. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Ok, to both of you guys

    Cloudfire, please next time state which pronunciation you're using and also both of you paste the text which you're using, if it's something new.

    Attached Files:

  14. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Long time no recording. Anyone wishes to read something while trying their best? :)
  15. Fabianus New Member

    Salvete ! Tandem huc venio ad aliquid legendum. :)

    I (am supposed to) use the classical pronunciation. I pronounce final "m" fully. I (try to) respect vowels quantities, but I noticed myself that I skip long vowels from time to time (like in "oratio" or "sane"). Besides I am unsure of the place of some stresses (for example "iudicem"), so if someone is kind enough to correct me, feel free to insist on that. For information my mother tongue is French.

    Here is the text (Cicero, Pro Quinctio, IX):

    << Conturbatus sane discedit Quinctius; neque mirum, cui haec optio tam misera tamque iniqua daretur ut aut ipse se capitis damnaret, si satis dedisset, aut causam capitis, si sponsionem fecisset, priore loco diceret. Cum in altera re causae nihil esset quin secus iudicaret ipse de se, quod iudicium grauissimum est, in altera spes esset ad talem tamen uirum iudicem ueniendi, unde eo plus opis auferret quo minus attulisset gratiae, sponsionem facere maluit; fecit; te iudicem, C. Aquili, sumpsit, ex sponso egit. >>

    Valete!

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  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Following the usual accentuation rules, iudicem should be stressed on the first syllable (IU-di-cem).
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  17. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Here's my feedback.

    Edit: Oh, you wrote your mother tongue was French... sorry for all my conjectures about your origin, silly me (I hadn't read it).

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  18. Fabianus New Member

    Salve Godmi,

    Thank you very much for making that effort in spite of my posting late! I haven't often come on that forum before unfortunately. I learnt several things I didn't know so thanks for everything.

    The "tsi" sound might be an effect of my personal diction (or it comes from the fact I have heard too many English-speakers' Latin). :p Thanks for pointing it out.

    Gratias ago, vale!
    Gratias et tibi, Pacifica.
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  19. Lysandra Canis

    • Civis Illustris
    Saluete amici!

    I’m going to be brave and post my attempt at Catullus 101 (restituted pronunciation). I haven’t really practiced pronunciation before so I’m sure there will be a lot to correct!!! :D

    Multas per gentes et multa per aequora uectus
    aduenio has miseras, frater, ad inferias,
    ut te postremo donarem munere mortis
    et mutam nequiquam alloquerer cinerem.
    Quandoquidem fortuna mihi tete abstulit ipsum.
    Heu miser indigne frater adempte mihi,
    nunc tamen interea haec, prisco quae more parentum
    tradita sunt tristi munere ad inferias,
    accipe fraterno multum manantia fletu,
    atque in perpetuum, frater, aue atque uale.

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  20. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Thank you! :) Here's my feedback/live reaction. At the end, I'm reciting the carmen myself.

    correction: 7:52 'put the accent on a' <- I mean on 'e' of course (parentum).
    correction2: In my own reading towards the end I might not elide the "ē" in "avē" properly.
    correction3: It seems I have inadvertently masculinized mūnus (creating some non-existing forms for it).

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    Last edited by Godmy, Apr 25, 2017
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