Let us hear and analyse each other's Latin pronunciation

By Godmy, in 'Pronunciation, Spelling and Listen to Latin', Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Alatius Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    As you rightly write in the end of your post, we have a disagreement when it comes to how to read poetry: I believe that the rhythm of the verse meter should be a bit more clearly and consistently done than it would be in prose. But by using the word unquestionably here, I wanted to point out that "perpetuum" in this case has a real issue, which I didn't expect to be controversial to you. I am genuinely flabbergasted that you don't acknowledge this long "t". So it is really interesting to discuss and analyse this, to see why we perceive this so differently.

    I suspect that, maybe, our different native languages make us pay attention to different things, and have different thresholds for what is perceived as phonemic syllable length in different contexts. Swedish does not have the same free length distribution as does Czech, but it has long and short syllables: specifically, a stressed syllable is always long, either by nature or by position (to use the same terminology as in Latin). So, a common error for some foreigners from languages without long/short distinction in vowels and consonants, is that they don't manage to lengthen stressed syllables enough, and native speakers are sensitive to this. However, if I listen to you saying the faux-Swedish word "perpettuum" here (notice the deliberate double t), I do not hear a too short stressed syllable (as would be the case in the proper Roman pronunciation of "perpetuum"); if anything, I hear the length as a bit overdone!

    I struggle a bit to understand your description of your analysis of the phonetic situation; perhaps you could rewrite it to make it clearer? Are you making a distinction between two different types of pauses? Acoustically, there is just one continuous pause discernible, which of course is perceived as the hold of the stop. In this case, I measure the hold+release to be 270 ms, which should be compared to the length of "cc" in "accipe" in the line before, which is 280 ms long.

    Edit: All right, considering what you said about not cluttering this thread, we can discuss this more in a separate thread, in case you still disagree.
    You are welcome, but this is not a small detail. It is one of the three main errors in your reading (the other two being "interea" and "manantia"); most of the other things that I commented on are contestable, but I am confident to say that this is not. Please listen to yourself again with a disinterested mindset. Then we can discuss "alloquerer" and "quandoquidem" later. ;)
    Haha, well, we are on the same page here then; I could very well have written what you just wrote!
    Absolutely, let's save that for another time!
    Last edited by Alatius, Aug 13, 2018
  2. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Thanks, I'll send an answer to a separate thread so this thread can be "vacated" for another potential recordings & reviews.

    Iohannes Aurum could you please edit the post here #271 and change the
    multum manantia flē
    multum *mānantia flē

    (1. an asterisk is added; 2. a macron is added to the first "a") for the future readers making audio recordings. Thanks!
    Last edited by Godmy, Aug 13, 2018
  3. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
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  4. TitusMarius New Member

    Fortasse iudicium mihi dare potestis, ut tiro sum. Pronuntiatu Ecclesiastico utor. Paragraphum primum ex libro primo cui nomen est "Confessiones" Sancti Aurelii Augustini legere/recitare elegi. Clare Americanus sum. :p

    Attached Files:

    Godmy likes this.
  5. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Thanks, here's the feedback, but next time, please, try to read some of the texts that have been posted here where the vowel lengths and accents have already been marked, because it's additional work for me otherwise ;) Also, please, keep it under 1 minute. 20 seconds long recording can take forever to react to, let alone 2 minutes. Also, if you're not about to use the restored pronunciation, please state which pronunciation model you're using, it will help to avoid some misunderstandings.

    Edit: I misspoke Marius as Mārius (I thought it was long out of ignorance, it should be short, my apologies).

    magnus es, domine, et laubilis valdē. magna virtūs tua et sapientiae tuae nōn est numerus. et laure tē vult homō, aliqua portiō creārae tuae, et homō circumferēns mortālitem suam, circumferēns testinium pecsuī et testinium quia superbīs resistis; et tamen laure tē vult homō, aliqua portiō creārae tuae. tū excitās ut laure tē dēlectet, quia fēcistī nōs ad tē et inquiētum est cor nostrum nec requiēscat in tē. dā mihi, domine, scīre et intellegere utrum sit prius invore tē an laure tē, et scīre tē prius sit an invore tē. sed quis tē invocat nesciēns tē? aliud enim prō aliō potest invore nesciēns. an potius invoris ut sciāris? quōmodo autem invobunt, in quem nōn crēdirunt? aut quōmodo crēdent sine praedicante? et laubunt dominum quī requīrunt eum: quaerentēs enim inveniunt eum et invenientēs laubunt eum. quaeram tē, domine, invocāns tē et invocem tē crēdēns in tē: praeditus enim es bīs. invocat tē, domine, fidēs mea, quam dedismihi, quam īnspīrāsmihi per hūmānitem liī tuī, per ministerium praedicāris tuī.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by Godmy, Dec 7, 2018
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