Marriage of Daniel Heraghty and Margaritta Heraghty

By lulibell, in 'Latin to English Translation', Mar 16, 2017.

  1. lulibell New Member

    I was scratching my head over the Latin on this marriage record and really just finding myself guessing. I'm interested in the impediment statement for Daniel and Margaritta Heraghty. I suspect that the impediment is some details about them being related.
    These are Irish ancestors so extra clues towards their genealogy will be much appreciated.
    Please see attached image.

    Many thanks
    Lulibell

    Attached Files:

  2. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Norvegia
    I see it, but the quality of the picture makes it very difficult to read. Seems like the first word is bis - "twice", other than that it would be wild guesswork. Maybe just me. Is it possible to get a better picture or a transcription?
  3. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    The first word looks like 'Dispensatione' to me i.e. by dispensation from the impediment.
  4. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    "Dispensatione obtenta 2? in 2? cons(sanguinis) gradibus."

    Anyone else got any thoughts? It looks like it might be some calculation, 2/2 representing a dispensation from consanguinity in the fourth degree i.e. first cousins. However, I don't understand why it doesn't say that straight out.
  5. lulibell New Member

    Thank you so much Terry and Araneus for looking. The picture is just as I found it on a genealogical site. You should be able to zoom into the image; I can. I think I can read
    "dipensatione obtenta in 2do et 2do laus: gladibus" I was trying to compare it to other words on the image to decipher the handwriting a bit better.
    I think it may say dispensation ....................second and second ............ ..............
    I think it may be about the bride and groom being second cousins, but would love to have an actual translation. Has anyone come across similar impediments on marriage certificates or be aware of the 'marriage laws' in 1870 Ireland. The family came from an island and were usually careful not to marry close relations and often found spouses on the mainland.
  6. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Norvegia
    2do is probably secundo then.

    So perhaps something like "dispensation obtained in the second and second grades of consanguinity".
    Terry S. likes this.
  7. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Norvegia
    I'm really not sure, mind, especially about the second to last word.
  8. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    I'm kicking myself for not seeing 'secundo'. It looks like the calculation is 'in the second degree of the direct line and the second degree of the collateral line' i.e. first cousins. This was a common dispensation in small, rural communities.
  9. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia

    I think it's 'cons.' for some declined form of consanguinis'.
  10. Mafalda Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Paulopolis
    Dispensatione obtenta in 2do et 2do cons(anguinitatis) gradibus.
  11. lulibell New Member

    Hi Terry and Araneus,
    I think that must be it! Well done! It makes sense that it is a dispensation for a first cousin to first cousin marriage, as I thought second cousins can marry (?!). So it is more than likely that their fathers James and John were brothers. The cons: is consanguinus.
    This is so wonderful as this gives me a bit more to go on with my genealogical puzzle.
    Best wishes and many thanks,
    Lu
    Araneus likes this.
  12. lulibell New Member

    Thanks for your help too, Mafalda.

    Lu:)
  13. Araneus Umbraticus Lector

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Norvegia
    Glad to help, and hope we figured it out right!
  14. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia

    I really don't know the answer to that for 1870. The Pio-Benedictine code of Canon Law didn't appear until 1917 (new code 1983), and I haven't the foggiest what laws, universal, national, provincial or diocesan, would have governed any aspect of marriage before the codification of ecclesiastical law.

    Best of luck on your journey back in time.

    PS The handy thing about consanguinity in drawing up a family tree is that it saves space on the paper! :)
    lulibell and Araneus like this.
  15. lulibell New Member

    Thanks again for your help and I'm going to have to swat up on my Latin.
    This is probably as far back as I can go with the records.
    I hope to visit the island soon, weather permitting.
    On the island they added another name to distinguish between individuals with the same name, and for men it was their father's name which was used. Eg Dan (Danny) Heraghty or Dan (Jimmy) Heraghty. I believe that Margaret was called Margaret (Jimmy) Heraghty and I assumed that she was James daughter and someone switched the fathers round on the marriage record, however I'm feeling now that she was called Margaret (Jimmy) Heraghty as her husband's father's name was James. I haven't got much to go on and I can't check my hypotheses with any more records cos there aren't any!! That's why it is great to have some help, thank you. ;)
  16. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    Which island was it?
  17. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    A lot of these so-called patronymics weren't/aren't so straightforward as taking the father's name as an add-on. If the mother were in some way outstanding or if there were enough 'Pádraig Jimmy's on the island already, another distinguishing name could be chosen. My family are known collectively as the Stiofáns, because Stiofán isn't a very common name round our way and it was my great-grandfather's name. That has been handed down now five or six generations.
  18. Terry S. scurra

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Hibernia
    To almost answer my own question, is it Inishmurray, Co. Sligo? I see this has been published by a Hera(u)ghty.

    Patrick Heraughty: Inishmurray: Ancient Monastic Island. O'Brien, Dublin, 1982
  19. lulibell New Member

    Yes, Inishmurray.
    Dr Heraughty's book contains some genealogy - He used the parish records and his own and some other islanders' recollections. It was a great piece of work, and it was a wonderful place for me to start my research. The 1901 and 1911 censuses weren't available to him. Prison records have also proved useful.
    You're right about the names, there were nicknames and other ways to distinguish individuals and families. There are/were also many ways of spelling Heraghty too.

    All the best.

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