Latin Mention Movie Tombstone

By Anonymous, in 'General Latin Chat (English)', Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Guest

    Hello all,
    I am replying to a post way back in 2006 where someone mentioned something about the movie Tombstone.
    My kids love this movie so I see it more than I should. It stars several well known actors and is a good "Guy" movie.

    Getting to the point, what does this have to do with latin?
    There is a scene where a very intoxicated Doc Holiday (Val Kilmer) is being confronted by Johnny Ringo (Michael Biehn), one of the primary bad guys, in a saloon where Wyatt Earp (Kurt Russell) is the dealer behind a farrow table.

    Holiday is very intoxicated and has just said something uncomplimentary about Ringo and Wyatt Earp tries to smooth things by saying "don't mind him he's just drunk". Then Holiday says under his breath as he takes a drink, "in vino veritas" and to his great surprise Ringo answers him in latin and then a short latin conversation ensues. Obviously, very few gunslingers (or anyone else) in the "old west" spoke latin.

    I have always wanted to know the translation of the rest of this conversation. If anyone knows this I would love to hear it. Thanks
    TheMouseAvenger likes this.
  2. Labienus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Re: Intro.

    Things like this pique my interest, too, so I found the scene on youtube:


    Sadly, my laptop no longer has sound :( and so perhaps someone else will oblige you with a full translation. I can tell you this much, though, from what you've said:

    The in vino veritas comment, following that chap saying 'don't mind him, he's drunk', literally means 'in wine the truth'. i.e. the truth comes out when you're drunk, alcohol loosens the tongue-- anything to that effect. It's a well known phrase from Pliny the Elder you might well have come across before. Originally a Greek saying, I think, but Greek is not my thing so you would have to find someone else! Hope that's of some use to you :)
  3. Akela dat affluenter

    • Princeps Senatus
    Has anyone else seen this movie? I've been thinking of it just because of the scene in Latin, but haven't gotten around to it.

    What do you, guys, think of it?
  4. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
  5. Decimvs Aedilis

    • Aedilis
  6. Akela dat affluenter

    • Princeps Senatus
    I just finished watching it. I liked it quite a bit, plus, the Latin conversation in it had my full attention:)

    This was an interesting strategic move on the part of the film-makers. They used exclusively very famous quotations, so that many people would recognize at least one phrase. A good way to stroke the viewers ego:) I would know, as I was thrilled that I knew all of the expressions :oops:

    One thing I find hard to believe is that the gunslinger knew "Credat Iudaeus Apella, non ego". Yup, it is not the fact that he knew any Latin at all that shocks me, it is the fact that he recognized this phrase.

    I realize that the whole point of this conversation is to show that both guys are similar to each other and very different from the surrounding them crowd in their education (as well as other things).
    But, what kind of an education would he have had to have to know Horace?
    And how do such people end up in the wild west?
    scotii likes this.
  7. Decimvs Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Glad you liked it, I thought it was good as well.

    Regarding Doc Holiday: (from his wikipedia entry)

    "Doc" Holliday was born in Griffin, Georgia, to Henry Burroughs Holliday and Alice Jane Holliday (née McKey). His father served in both the Mexican-American War and the Civil War. His family baptized him at the First Presbyterian Church in 1852.
    In 1864, his family moved to Valdosta, Georgia. Holliday's mother died of tuberculosis on September 16, 1866, when he was 14 years old. Three months later, his father married Rachel Martin. While in Valdosta, he attended the Valdosta Institute, where he received a strong classical secondary education in rhetoric, grammar, mathematics, history, and languages — principally Latin, but also French and some Ancient Greek.
  8. Akela dat affluenter

    • Princeps Senatus
    I didn't even know that this was based on an actual event.

    Well, I looked it up, and there seems to be no evidence of Johnny Ringo having similar education. I still like the fact that they put the conversation in :oops:

    I found an audio file of the conversation:

    The audio file box is ridiculously large, but I have no idea how to fix it.

    Attached Files:

  9. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
    You can try Audacity, which can convert .wav files into .mp3 files, given that mp3s are compressed, while wav files are not.
  10. Akela dat affluenter

    • Princeps Senatus
    I referred to the size of the actual box of the media player displayed in the post - not the file size.

    But, yes, audacity is great:)
  11. alexgreen New Member

  12. leke New Member

    There has been quite a lot of Latin in Lost lately. While we are on the subject, has there ever been a film made completely in Latin?
  13. SuperSue New Member

    Thanks for the link! It was a great translation and interpretation/explanation!
  14. crystalled Member

    The Passion of Christ directed by Mel Gibson was made in Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic.
  15. Nikolaos schmikolaos

    • Censor
    I was going to ask about that. I need to see that someday... I have a bit of a stronger stomach than I did when it came out, and now I have at least a little Latin education to go with it.
  16. Akela dat affluenter

    • Princeps Senatus
    I was just thinking the same thing. People tend to ask me about it, as soon as I mention the Latin Forum, and I have not seen it either, thus - nothing to tell them.

    That one deserves its own topic though :)
  17. TheMouseAvenger New Member

    Winnie, TX
    That so happens to be one of my favorite parts in the whole movie. ^_^ Oddly enough, I didn't recognize the majority of the quotations, until I looked at the link that Decimus so generously supplied us with... ;) Whee, now I feel a lot smarter! :D
    Akela likes this.
  18. vetus bumbulus New Member

    "Sebastiane is a 1976 film written and directed by Derek Jarman and Paul Humfress. It portrays the events of the life of Saint Sebastian, including his iconic martyrdom by arrows. The film, which was aimed at a homosexual audience, was controversial for the homoeroticism portrayed between the soldiers. It is significant for being the first film to be entirely recorded accurately in Latin, which went as far as the translation of some dialogue into vulgar Latin."
  19. Big Horn Member

    Cody, WY, U.S.
    I read a biography of Holliday some years ago which made mention of this. He was an educated man, and were it not for his contracting tuberculosis, it's likely that his life would have been far different with far less notoriety.

    Ringo is an enigma. We can't even be sure of his name. I have, however, read several brief references to his being classically educated. This is likely no more than rumor.

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