Nec tecum possum vivere, nec sine te. / Nec possum tecum vivere, nec sine te.

By Aurelius L, in 'Latin to English Translation', Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I figured I might as well post the defixio here so it's easier for everyone:
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I've had a look at two other transliterated inscriptions in the book, and they look a bit more consistent than that one, in their way of rendering vowel length and c.

    So now, I'd tend to suggest this transcription, going the logical way:

    Nεκ τηκουμ ποσσουμ ουιουερε νεκ σινε τη.

    Would others agree?
  3. Aurelius L New Member


    I see. Out of pure curiosity, why ποσσυμ goes to ποσσουμ with ου replacing the υ? I find that pretty interesting.
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Because ου in Greek represents the same sound as Latin u.

    υ represents a different sound (which has no equivalent in Latin except in words borrowed from Greek).
  5. Aurelius L New Member


    Oh ok I see. Thanks for the clarification. Btw, my mother tongue is spanish, so those words (latin) in my head doen't sound with an english accent. Random fact lol.
  6. Aurelius L New Member

    Well, it looks like it makes sense according to everything you said and based on the defixio. Still, if anyone has a different opinion, be my guest.

    Another question, the η replaces the ε why? Because of the sound of the "e"?
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes. ε represents a short e sound, while η represents a long e sound. Latin makes no difference in writing between long and short e, bu the e in te and tecum is pronounced long, so it seems logical to transliterate it to the letter that represents the long e sound in Greek.
  8. Aurelius L New Member

    Oh I see. Thanks for explaining me. If anyone else have something to say, well be my guest. Otherwise I think I'll stick to this
  9. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I'm beginning to think that the inversion of tecum and possum in the Greek transliteration is deliberate. It scans either way, but given that you've got to represent the Latin semivowel V with a Greek vowel, it looks as though it would elide when transliterated, although it wouldn't. If you see what I mean.

    I still don't see the point of this. If you want the Latin quotation, I'd have thought you'd want it as it was originally written, in Latin letters of some sort or another. If you want to refer to a specific manga where it was transliterated into Greek letters, I'd have thought you'd want it as it appeared there. Now we're into the territory of how the manga artist would have done something we don't understand the point of if they'd known a bit more about Latin, or Greek, which is a subjunctive too far for me.
  10. Aurelius L New Member

    Ehh actually I don't see what you mean sorry, I really don't know almost anything about latin or greek.

    Regarding the point of the tattoo, well I guess is just plain shallowness about how it looks. Then manga doesn't state much about this quote, it just appears there written in greek and I always thought it looks pretty cool. But like I said, due to some recent experiences in my life, well the quote accquired meaning to me and I thought this way would be awesome, just didn't think it was gonna grow into this lol.
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I do, in theory, but wouldn't tecum elide just as much as possum? I don't know for sure how Romans would have dealt with this, but I tend to think that, since they would know it represented a Latin consonantal sound, they would have left it as is without worrying too much.
  12. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, of course. Don't know what I was thinking. But the rest of it still applies. Either you'd want the original, or the way it appeared in the manga.
  13. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    There is a third option: you want it transliterated into Greek in a coherent way. Seeing Aurelius's request, it seemed to me it was what he wanted. Now, he'll know better.
  14. Aurelius L New Member

    Yes, pretty much. The thing is, if the manga got it transliterated the wrong way, I don't want to run into someone that knows the greek alphabet an be like "what in the world is this?" I don't know if I'm explaining myself right. It's like those russian guys who get tattoos in english but badly written.

    Would be something like, "the quote has a meaning to me, but I got the idea of the transliteration into greek alphabet from a manga" sort of.

    Now, regarding what Etaoin said, does it applies or it doesn't? :confused:
  15. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    ... but wanted to do it better than they did. :p
    I don't think it does, but perhaps we should ask for one more opinion concerning the transliteration in general, just to make sure. Aurifex?
  16. Aurelius L New Member

    Exactly. :D
  17. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    I don't think a final C would be transliterated as a kappa, at least not in classical times, when chi would represent the sound of an aspirated kappa. It's pretty near impossible to pronounce a final C without aspiration. WS Allen, who is generally God in these things, says that C was transliterated as kappa, but although that's true of the letter elsewhere in the word, it doesn't seem to apply here. Look at the transliteration of hoc in the first line of what Pacifica posted. Also, for comparison, ut seems to fluctuate between tau and theta.
  18. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Really? A very slight aspiration, then? Because I don't pronounce a final c like chi...
    The thing is that that particular inscription seems a bit random in its use of aspirates vs. non-aspirates. Look at cor, for example, where the c is written chi although it isn't word-final. In another inscription which seems overall more consistent than the defixio, hoc is written with kappa:

    Δις Μαν(υς). Γ. Ιουλους [sic] Τιλεσφορος φηκετ ετ σιβι ετ σουεις λειβ
    <ε> ρτεις λειβερταβουσκε εωρουμ. Τερεντια Ακτη φηκετ Τερεντιω
    Ανεικητω ετ λειβ <ε> ρτω ετ κονιουγει βενεμερεντει ετ σιβι ετ σουεις
    λειβερτεις λειβερταβουσκε εωρουμ. Οκ μονομεντου ηδεφικατου ες
    κομουνε Ιουνιω Τελεσφορω ετ Τερεντια Ακτη.

    Now, I don't know...
  19. Aurelius L New Member

    Suprinsingly, I get what you are saying. Although Pacifica said that the defixio seems random regarding that, so she looked at two other transliterated inscriptions in the book that seemed more consistent regarding the transliteation of C.
  20. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    The third inscription contains no final c, so it's of no help concerning this question. There's only that one hoc in the inscription I last posted.

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