Never give up.Always persevere

By Anonymous, in 'English to Latin Translation', Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Guest

    Hi Everyone,

    would any of ye know the english-latin translation of,

    "Never give up.Always persevere",

    Thanks,

    Nagaite
  2. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Re: Translation

    I think you mean "never give up hope," and that you're referring to one person, not more. That would be,
    Numquam spem depone! Semper persevera!
    If, on the other hand, you're adressing more than one person, change the above to:
    Numquam spem deponite! Semper perseverate!
  3. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    Re: Translation

    The notions I know are spem abicere or desperare, but I suppose you also find it with deponere. In any case, you should use the prohibitive if you want to negate an imperative:

    Numquam (or ne umquam) spem deposueris!
  4. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Re: Translation

    According to Traupman, to lose hope = spem deponere.
    You're right, I was thinking of using the subjunctive in an imperative manner, but wasn't really sure. So the perfect subjunctive is used to express a prohibitive command? But couldn't you say:
    Ne me e somno excites! (which is pres.subj.)
    Could you also tell me, Bitmap, what grammar text you are using? I admire your knowledge of all these grammatical terms.
  5. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    Re: Translation

    That looks like a negated optative. In classical Latin a negated imperative is always ne + perfect subjunctive or noli(te) + imperative, but it may be a bit different in post-classical texts.
    I usually draw my information from the German "Lateinische Grammatik" by Rubenbauer/Hofmann/Heine
  6. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Re: Translation

    In classical prose the jussive subjunctive is used for the second person only when a general or indefinite 'you' is meant, so only the 2nd person singular form is ever used. Ne me e somno excites! might be found on a "do not disturb" sign on someone's bedroom door, but it wouldn't be used as a direct command. In early Latin and in classical poetry, however, it can be used more or less like the imperative. As Bitmap said, prohibitions in classical prose take usually one of two forms: noli + infinitive is the most common, being polite and formal; ne + perfect subjunctive is more peremptory and informal, so it's less common. There are also a few rarer prohibitive forms, like cave [ne] "beware lest", fac ne "make it that...not" and cura ne "take care that...not", all with the subjunctive (purpose clauses). Ne + imperative is also found, but it's extremely rare even in poetry.

    I do think it should be ne unquam rather than numquam, however. Numquam is a contraction of non + umquam, but I don't think ne should ever contract. I know it doesn't in purpose or jussive noun clauses, for example.
  7. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    Re: Translation

    All my dictionaries give numquam as a contraction of ne + umquam.
    I know that ne is not contracted in other subjunctive clauses, such as purpose clauses (videant consules...), but my grammar cites a few examples of prohibitive clauses with ne being contracted: Nihil scripseris! (= Ne quid scripseris ; unfortunately without any source... although I assume you could find such an example with some research)
    (Adversario meo da istum patronum, deinde) mihi neminem dederis! (instead of ne quem; de orat. 2, 280)
  8. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Re: Translation

    Gratias vobis pro hac explicatione ago! Quotidie fere aliquid hoc in foro disco...et gaudeo. :D

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