[New] Latin Syntax Graph Generator

By Godmy, in 'Latin Language Resources', Jul 15, 2012.

  1. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    A project I've been working on for past two months:

    1) To generate a graph like this:


    Or this:
    Or this:
    (or much more difficult and longer)

    2) With this: http://syntax.t15.org + a public and your private archive you can store your sentences in to use it as a notepad for harder reading

    How to:

    - You simply imply by making the pairs [as: (1,2) (2,4) (3,4) ] any syntactic relation between two words which are somehow connected in your current correct understanding of the sentence.

    3) Just write me here to this thread or to PM, please, that you want an account for the archives and I'll send you a pre-generated password


    How is it different from other syntax tree graph generators?
    - You can keep the... no, you are REQUIRED to keep the original word order as I believe it matters, let's not corrupt (reorder) the original latin sentences for sake of the graphs and easier demonstrations.

    - Other software want the phrases to be together, therefore "Arbor magnos habet ramos pulchra" is not passible and you would have to input "Arbor pulchra habet ramos magnos" - no good.

    - other software make ugly (non linear) trees, this keeps the line as you read it

    - It instantly generates a direct PNG link, so you can share it on the forum (without having an account on that site)

    What are the advantages:
    - The private archive can be your notepad used during any reading, when you are dealing with something where the syntactical interpretation seems at the moment less easy for you... You feel that sudden understanding of some particular latin sentence has been an ACHIEVMENT for you and you want TO MAKE NOTES of it. --> You create a graph and store it into the private archive (or into the public one if you want).
    And in the archives you can easily access it, review it, edit it, delete it... link it.

    - Using the public archive is a quick way for others to modify your sentence and to show you what are their own interpretations

    - You can review your past interpretations (the private archive) and compare them with your current thinking

    - You can use it to teach the others (for example if you happen to be a teacher using the data projector to show things to your students - you can show them the right interpretation of some difficult sentence) (I used it already here )

    - It is free, no ads, no money making and there never will be on this site

    (Have fun and let me know that you want an account.)
    Terraphore, EricDi, LCF and 5 others like this.
  2. Nikolaos schmikolaos

    • Censor
    Very good! May I suggest two new features for future consideration?

    1. Buttons for adding numbers and parenthesis, rather than typing.

    2. Multi-level trees. I personally perceive partes tres as being a single object of in, rather than two. If we could represent this as something like (5, (6, 7)), I would upgrade my rating from "very good" to "perfect".
    Godmy likes this.
  3. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Thank you very much Nikolaos! I'm very grateful for any good word or a suggestion.

    1. I thought about it... this stage is really not the best solution possible (probably just the quickest one to make) - and I have something in mind and I'll try to implement it

    2. You are right: you can do it even now if you write in-partes-tres as one word <- it's very low-level solution, I know, but it is possible, anyway, it's a nice a suggestion... this would be probably much more harder to do than the first one (not because of the parsing of the pairs, that seems rather easy, but because of the graphics which is generated purely by prediction where what should be)

    2. (addendum) But thank you for the suggestion and use please until now this improvised solution where you can input "in-partes-tres" or "in_partes_tres"

  4. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Thanks! ;)
    I'll think about giving user an option to add a link...

    Well... to provide it with arrows would mean that the way you are writing the pairs must be more rigid and that the order you are writing it in matters, which is slightly negative...

    Also: if you are a latinist then there is in each relation just one possible way it works: like adjective---noun <- the adjective is always subordinate to the noun; or verb-object <- the verb is always 'superordinate' to the object (or some believe they are on the same level).
    Also: usually the graph has some beginning (a word from which just one relation stems) and some end (again just one relation). So you can many times just simply pick the way to read it.
    - Anyway... It's not that bad idea, I'll think about it. I want to remake the interface anyway.... So thank you :chicken:

    This tool is supposed to free you from a need to reorder each sentence into english-like non-latin-like word order in order to understand it in the future.
    So I'm not planning anything like that.

    The relations are all you need! Understand the sentence natively... (and then, when there is an occasion: write natively as much as possible)

    It's simple:
    - Some people reorder sentences and never get fully used to the latin word order (either when they are reading or when they are about to write in latin)
    - Some people don't reorder the sentences and they are just getting used to the word order
    - And some people can now use the graph to keep the original sentence as it flows and yet fully understand its purpose and its word order :guitar: ... and imitate it more easily in the future writing.

    - Anything else is redundant and ineffective to really get better in both Latin reading and writing.

    Anyway: thank you very much for the suggestions ;) :hi:
  5. EricDi Member

    Hi Godmy,
    This tool looks interesting and it is very generous of you to offer it. At my stage I do prefer retaining word order, as this tool does, to better absorb the Latin style; I’ll defer re-ordering for an advanced stage of capturing emphasis (which likely would always be debatable). I am wondering - how does it look for a long sentence (more than one line)? Can you provide a longer example?

    P.S. Your comment:
    was a relief, for Forum-sake, because my first impression was somewhat skewed by the default screenshot of the site in your thread starter; i.e., PayPal.). Regardless, very geeky cool! :)
  6. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    First, thank you very much EricDi ;)

    We probably discovered this kind of schema/diagram/graph making already when completing similar stuff at school into our exercise books/little notebooks, but this might the first tool, that can so easily make it in this picture form and make it accessible for your friends in a no-time.

    << Those paypal things et cetera are there just by coincidence (as you have seen then yourself) because the Youtube chose for the default screen the part where my Opera browser Speed-Dial is being shown :p (And the other screens provided are not much better). But I guess the video might be helpful...

    An example of a longer sentence (we can still argue about some bits of course):

    (Vergilius, Aeneis <- click to zoom)

    (Ovidius, Metamorphoses )

    (Sallustius, Bellum Catilinae <- again, click to zoom )

    I hope it's enough ;)
    I avoided some of the longer sentences not to sparkle potential discussion just about my interpretations, overshadowing the tool itself (nevertheless I'm posting only what I believe is correct and makes sense when interpreted thus).
    Last edited by Godmy, Oct 7, 2012
  7. EricDi Member

    Yes, that's enough/excellent. Looks like shrink and zoom to accommodate the long stuff. Woah! How do you do that?! Nevermind; just a bit amazed. I see that you provided the path via PM separately. Thanks for the quick turn! I will follow up and close the loop.
  8. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, the forum shrinks too long pictures and the clicking provides the actual size :)
    (Anytime you post a link in the [ img ] tags (or use the button to do it) and the picture is too long)

    Anyway, have luck with it! I hope I will make some of the updates we've been talking about here...
  9. EricDi Member

    The half-thought stems from my fixation/vexation with pronouns and their antecedents (and a pet peeve about their excessive use in any language). What I was suggesting was a different line format (e.g., dashed) for links that were specifically to link pronouns to their antecedents; but such would require a third index, like (3,7,x) where x denotes a change in format for the line. But having said that, even before such a complexity were added, the tool is actually generic...and I could use it for this purpose alone already...e.g., here it is used only to show the link between a pronoun and its antecedent:

    (So, if the green line were dashed, it could be distinguished from the direct links that the tool was originally intended for..but I will exercise the tool more before I would reiterate my suggestion. Thanks!) Edit: Oops, left an extra numquam at the end; please ignore.
  10. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    (I've responded to EricDi in a PM as this was kind of a mis-post, as he said)
  11. EricDi Member

    Hello Godmy, :hi:
    (Long time for me.)
    Would you mind if I were to use this tool for select posts in Latin Discussion forums in order to illustrate pronoun and antecedent links only, instead of the more general, intended purpose? I would understand if not, that's why I am asking first.
  12. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    I made it exactly for that purpose, EricDi ;)
    (that's also why a direct link is instantly generated)

    Feel free to use it!
  13. MagisterGreen New Member

    I'd love access to this tool. I plan to use it in my Latin classes, not to mention for myself.
    Maximas gratias
  14. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Thank you for your interest! You can use it all even unregistered (as a random access) but I'll send you the login info, so you will be able to save the graph into archive (if you are logged beforehand).

    I'll plan to make the interface better probably during this summer, so please have a patience with me :)

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