No love is greater than that of a father for his sons

By aidencian, in 'English to Latin Translation', Mar 4, 2014.

  1. Ignis Umbra Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    USA
    That statement implies that I said amor could be removed without any ambiguity, therefore yielding Nullus maior quam ..., but in fact I was referring to the ablative amore.
    You interpreted correctly. My only question now is why that doesn't work exactly...
  2. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    I was disagreeing with LCF's statement, which I thought you agreed with: "nullus maior est is not the same as nullus amor major est. When nullus does not refer to a person, it is customary to specify a noun. If anything is to be left out, it should rather be the ablative amore rather than amor." On the contrary, amore can't be left out, though amor probably could be.
    I'm not at all sure how to satisfactorily answer a question of this kind, to be honest. Latin just doesn't use the equivalent of "that of". It either repeats the noun or leaves it implied where possible.


    ETA: In case you don't want to take my word for it, see here under NOTE 1 for corroboration.
    Last edited by Imber Ranae, Mar 5, 2014
  3. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Both translations proposed thus far are right, but here's a third, which is both rather literal and avoids repetition, and is also idiomatic I think:

    Nullus amor maior est quam patris erga filios: no love is greater than that of a father for (his) sons.
  4. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    Yeah but LCF rendered it so Ciceronianically almost... yours is good too PP!
    Christian Alexander likes this.
  5. One should also remember, that its not just rendering a Latin phrase for idiom and exactness.... It is a rendering for something personal and something hundreds of people are going to see, read, and ask about -- it needs to have that sort of flow, or natural rhythm which makes people inclined to certain quotes or sayings, how it sounds when spoken aloud. Though that might have to rest in the opinion of the person utilizing the quote, I suppose. I'm not saying I have the answer, just a thought..
    I like all 3 of the variants so far, overall. Pacis Puella's definitely has a straightforwardness to it that I like, and I dig the rhythm it has
    aidencian likes this.
  6. Abbatissæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, and Pacis' verſion reads very eaſily.
  7. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I like LCF's too, providing you change filium to filios - and suum to suos if you keep it but I like it without.
  8. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ludoviciana
    I agree.
  9. aidencian New Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    Hi, and sorry to bother you again, i was looking for your advice on the following............my son finally got a teacher at his school that spoke Latin and showed him both options given on here. His teacher advised that your version was most suitable for what i was looking for but he did say he would have changed one thing which was to add the word est in between maior quam. Do you have any view on this?
  10. Ignis Umbra Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, I do. Est can either be included or omitted; its presence or absence doesn't affect the translation.
  11. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos
  12. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    No, amat. No reason for the subjunctive here, it's just a general fact. I have a personal preference for your and my versions with patris erga filios, though. But I suppose it's just personal, the quo one is right too, just a little less straigtforwardly said.
    Last edited by Pacis puella, Mar 7, 2014
  13. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos
    It matters little if it is a general fact or not. This is a relative clause, it requires a subjunctive mood.
  14. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Not all relative clauses take the subjunctive. Only if they express purpose, characteristic, after unus/solus/nullus est qui... are part of a hypothetical/unreal statement or depend on indirect speech
  15. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos
  16. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I don't especially see a charcteristic here, "of the kind to...".
  17. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos
    nullus maior meo patre, qui me amat....
    // my father is great, he loves me.

    nullus major (eo) patre qui amet
    // there is no one greater than a father who loves.
    Last edited by LCF, Mar 7, 2014
  18. Ignis Umbra Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    USA
    But here's the thing: I didn't use the nominative form, but rather the ablative.

    Nullus amor maior quam quo pater filios amat - No love is greater than that by which a father love his sons. This is stating a fact, describing how the love is used.
  19. I think I kinda see how LCF is seeing it, like:

    There's no kind of love greater than a father's for his son. / There's no type of love greater.. etc

    But I guess the interpretation/usage of that relative could change it..
  20. Pacis puella γραμματικωτατη

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    It would rather be something like "No love is greater than the one which is of such a kind that a father would love his sons with it".

    I'd use the indicative. The subjunctive is weird there.

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