Nobis vita mori, vivere pena datur.

By Pacis puella, in 'Latin to English Translation', Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Oh Pacis puella, it must stay in the participle "essens" (for a double nominative) or "essentem" (for a double accusative), "essenti" for double dative... etc.
    (For others: we are still talking hypothethically, of course that this participle is never seen :p )

    Nobis vita (essens) mori (datur), vivere (essens) pena datur.
    As: "To-us the life [being a] death (is given), the life [being a] punishment is given.

    :)

    Edit:Another examples using the invisible participle: Romulum regem vidi - Romulum [essentem] regem vidi - I saw him being a king / as a king / when he was a king
    Romulum rex vidi - Romulum [ego essens] rex vidi - myself being a king...(when I was...)
    Last edited by Godmy, Nov 16, 2012
    LCF likes this.
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Here I would have recognized regem as an apposition at once, but I don't know why it feels different in my sentence. I guess that's just because it's the first time I encounter an apposition used that way.
  3. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Hmm... hard to say if I'd call it an apposition. We still talk about the double cases, I just made clear that our deaf copula/word must stay in the participle to make sense, not an infinitive (and that participle is declined according to the fact, which cases are doubled): Romulus being a king was eating <- Romulus and king are two nominatives, so "being" is also a participle in nominative. I saw a Romulus being a king to do something. <- Romulus and king are accusative (= so they can be connected together, otherwise they are disconnected), so even "being" is there a participle in accusative according the agreement.

    And in the end we know that the participle "being" is only a hypothethical participle for Latin...
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes I think I understand what you mean. It's not really an apposition as in Rex Ludovicus potentissimus erat, for example. It's a bit different. Could we say it's almost adverbial...?
  5. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Yes, we could say that :) I think it is a part of the predicate, not of the subject....

    [IMG]
    <- Romulus and infans are connected only via the case agreement... and the "as a king/being a king" connection is understood via that predicate/verb.

    Edit: The double casing is handy, Pacis puella, if we want to avoid an ablative absolute (when we can't use it: I can't say "Romulo infante, cum aliis ludebat" <- invalid, the subject and most probably even the object of the main clause cannot be present in the ablative absolute)
    Edit2: If I used "puer" in all those places, it would have been better :rolleyes1:

    Edit3: Another example of double casing: Urbs Roma appellatur <- double nom; Urbem Romam appellamus <- double acc.; etc etc etc... number and gender are not important, only the case
    Last edited by Godmy, Nov 16, 2012
  6. Acsacal Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Ile-de-France
    I would link infans, as an apposition, directly to Romulus.
  7. Kosmokrator Active Member

    Location:
    Pléroma
    complemento predicativo, dont know how you call it in english
  8. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    'predicative complement' or just 'predicate complement'
  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium

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