omnis qui se exaltat humiliabitur

By Cinefactus, in 'General Latin Chat (English)', May 19, 2017.

  1. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Reddo means "give back". I think you're confounding it with another verb that is spelled just slightly differently... ;)
  2. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    There can't be that many verbs left ;)

    sed ut redeamus ad res quae in ecclesia agebantur, Marcus nunc postulabat ut sacerdos exorcismum super catulum diceret
  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    That works.

    Sed ut ad ea quae in ecclesia fiebant revertamur, Marcus iam instabat ut sacerdos catulo adhiberet exorcismum.

    The priest said: "To me, this puppy really doesn't look possessed, but I will examine him a bit more. Though, actually, if you are, as you affirm, a saint, won't an exorcism performed by you have more effect than one performed by a mediocre priest like me?"
  4. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    I don't think it's necessarily that he's confusing it with "redeo", since "reddo" can be translated as "return". The only thing is that "reddo" is "return" in a transitive sense like "I returned the book to my teacher" so it wouldn't work here.
  5. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    catulus mihi inquit sacerdos non vere insanus videtur sed eum magis inspiciam. tametsi, etiam, si tu es, ut affirmas, sanctus, nonne exorcismus sit efficacior a te diceri quam a sacerdote mediocri, ut me?
  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    - In the original, "to me" is placed so as to be emphasized. Your translation, on the other hand, emphasizes catulus more than mihi.

    - Insanus means "mad", "crazy", "insane"... Not really "possessed". The use of a non-classical word is naturally allowed here, since the concept of possession itself is a later one.

    - Non vere X videtur is more like "doesn't look really X" than "really doesn't look X". Hint: to render the latter, just use an emphatic form of negation (similar to "not at all", "by no means"...).

    - Tametsi, etiam sounds a bit odd. Hint: I have rendered "though, actually" with only one word, which could back-translate to something like "but (on the other hand)", "(but) in truth" as well.

    - nonne exorcismus sit efficacior a te diceri: this whole part doesn't work, for several reasons. First, the passive infinitive of dicere is dici, not diceri (since it's third declension, not second). Secondly, what is it that "would be more effective"? If the exorcism, then efficacior agrees correctly with exorcismus, but the infinitive just won't fit into the sentence. If the fact of saying the exorcism, then that's neuter and efficacior is the wrong gender, and "for an exorcism to be said" should be an acc.-inf. clause. A less serious inaccuracy is that nonne sit means "wouldn't it be", whereas the original has "won't it be".

    - a sacerdote mediocri, ut me: this isn't really grammatically wrong but it feels unusual and possibly unidiomatic. Perhaps it would be better to do it literally as "me, a mediocre priest".
  7. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Sorry, I am a bit confused as to what the problem with using the infinitive would be.

    Let me try a participle...

    mihi inquit sacerdos catulus nullo modo possessus videtur sed eum magis inspiciam. verum, si tu es, ut affirmas, sanctus, nonne exorcismus te dicente erit efficacior quam a me sacerdote mediocri
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Something like exorcismus efficacior est dici, literally "the exorcism is more effective to be said", isn't a correct construction for what we are trying to say, as far as I know. (Efficax occasionally takes an infinitive, but it's an infinitive of purpose, then.)
    I think the construction with the ablative absolute works rather well, but you forgot to remove a little word that's no longer needed.

    I don't know if possessus is actually attested in this sense. I used daemoniacus.
    Last edited by Pacifica, Dec 4, 2017
    Cinefactus likes this.
  9. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    I saw that, but I wasn't sure if I could get away with it. If I remove a, would sacerdote then become part of the aa, and therefore need -e with mediocris?

    mihi inquit sacerdos catulus nullo modo daemoniacus videtur sed eum magis inspiciam. verum, si tu es, ut affirmas, sanctus, nonne exorcismus te dicente erit efficacior quam me sacerdote mediocre
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    It does become an ablative absolute, but it already was in the ablative before (since a(b) takes the ablative), and the ablative singular of mediocris is mediocri (most third-declension adjectives have -i in the ablative singular).
  11. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Of course. I was getting confused with participles

    mihi inquit sacerdos catulus nullo modo daemoniacus videtur sed eum magis inspiciam. verum, si tu es, ut affirmas, sanctus, nonne exorcismus te dicente erit efficacior quam me sacerdote mediocri
  12. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    OK.

    "Mihi quidem", inquit, "hic catulus", sacerdos, "nequaquam videtur daemoniacus; tamen eum paulum amplius inspiciam. Verum si tu, uti ais, sanctus es, nonne plus tuus exorcismus quam meus mediocris sacerdotis proficiet?"

    To this he replied, "Although I am a saint, I have absolutely no experience in exorcism."
  13. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Ille ad haec respondit, "quamvis sanctus sim, nulla mihi exorcismi peritia est."
  14. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Looks good.
  15. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Not quite sure about the best way to do the last bit. I have tried a couple of ways:

    ad haec respondit, "Etsi sanctus,
    prorsus numquam exorcismum expertus sum
    omnino nullam experientiam exorcismi habui
  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'm not sure which is better. They both work on a grammatical level, at least. About idiomaticity, I don't know.

    Here's what I've got:

    Ad haec ille, "Qui sanctus sim," inquit, "exorcismi tamen prorsus imperitus sum."

    The priest told them to follow him and went back into the sacristy.
  17. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    sacerdos eos iussit se sequi, et rediit in sacrarium

    or maybe
    sacerdos iubens eos se sequi, rediit in sacrarium
  18. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Both work.

    Sacerdos illis se sequi iussis sacrarium rursus ingressus est.

    There, having provided Marcus and Publius with seats, wine and cakes (which they, having eaten nothing since the previous day, received very gladly), he himself sat down at a table, on which he placed the puppy and began to touch various parts of his body with a crucifix, to see if he had any reaction indicative of demonic possession.
    Last edited by Pacifica, Dec 8, 2017 at 5:21 PM

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