participle?

By LZY, in 'Latin Beginners', May 13, 2019.

  1. LZY New Member

    Hi

    In this sentence: ...Caesar...maturandum (esse) sibi existimavit, ne,...

    Should 'sibi' be dative of agent? Then what is the subject of maturandum? Simply 'it'?

    Thank you
    Last edited by LZY, May 13, 2019
  2. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    It is not a participle, but a gerund construction.

    gerund + a form of esse usually implies some kind of necessity.
    The dative implies the person to whom said necessity applies.

    So Caesar sibi maturandum esse existimavit means "Caesar thought he had to hurry".
  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    It is some sort of "it", yes. Maturandum est means literally "it must be hurried" or, even more literally, "it is needing-to-be-hurried". However, the construction in this sentence is impersonal, which means that this "it" doesn't denote any particular thing, but rather the action itself, and in normal English you would translate it with something more along the lines of what Bitmap suggested.

    If you think you need more explanations to make sense of impersonal constructions (which don't happen only with gerundives), you can take a look at this post and especially section "5. Impersonal Passive", where I explain it a bit more at length.
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Note: gerundive, not gerund.
  5. LZY New Member

    Thank you!
  6. LZY New Member

    Thank you! Great help! Always looking forward to your succinct answer!
  7. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena

    :eek-2:
    :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

    :brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2::brickwall2:
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    The names are easily confused.

    In the beginning, I made the reverse mistake because the gerund is called gérondif in French... so I "translated" it to "gerundive"...
  9. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    The annoying thing is that I think I knew that once ;P

    I think I just filed gerundive under everything that is some kind of attribute and gerund under everything else :/
  10. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada

    I did the same thing in last Wednesday's Latin study group.

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