Phrases using deponent-verbs, ablative-agency and the passive voice.

By Elagabalus Iuniore, in 'Latin Beginners', Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Elagabalus Iuniore New Member

    I am reasonably confident of my translations of the first 3, although the last 2 I'm more unsure about.

    The online course I have been taking uses the convention of using 'u' for 'v' in all instances. For more complex sentences the word order becomes increasingly confusing.
    These are the translations I have come up with anyway, please point out where my errors are.

    1. The wicked farmer will be killed by the fierce virgins.

    I. Agricola malus a feroxibus virginibus interfec(i?)entur.

    2. The citizens are pursuing the hairy elephant through the streets of the town.

    II. Ciues elephantum hirsutum per uiros oppidi sequentur.

    3. General, the swift soldiers have often been bitten by the stupid centurion in the
    mountains.

    III. Dux, milites celeres a stulto centorione saepe morsi (mordebar?) in montibus.

    4. The unlucky consul lingered in the temple yesterday.

    IV. Heri, consul infelix in templo morabatur.

    5. At the fourth hour, the cruel lanista was wounded with a sword by Spartacus in
    Capua.

    V. Quarta hora, lanista crudelis(?) a spartaco(us?) gladio uulneratus est (in) capuam.

    [OR]

    V. Quarta hora, spartaco(us?) lanistam crudelis uulnerauerant gladio.

    This last sentence seems it can be translated in many ways, given the free-word order of Latin.
    Any feedback would be much appreciated.
  2. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    Check the dictionary entry for "ferox".
    Note the vowel in "interficio" - you should be using the first/second principal part. "interficientur" is plural - you need the singular since there is only one wicked farmer.

    What a bizarre sentence. Anyway, I suspect you meant "uicos" as "uiros" means "men", not "streets".
    "sequentur" - wrong tense.

    Another extremely bizarre sentence.
    If you want to do the perfect passive (have been bitten), you need to use two words. The perfect passive is formed with the fourth principal part + a form of sum.

    Sure, or you can do moratus est (perfect tense)

    Your first sentence is better, your second translation has a number of issues. The only problem with the first sentence is that "capuam" (accusative) is the wrong case. Have you learned the locative?
  3. Elagabalus Iuniore New Member

    Ok, after reviewing your advice, here's a rewrite. Yes, the sentences are bizzare, unfortunately these, rather than Terence or Caesar, are the exercises we are given; perhaps the former are too complex as of yet. Let's see if any errors have been ironed out.

    1. The wicked farmer will be killed by the fierce virgins.

    I. Agricola malus a feroxibus virginibus interfecetur. [I see had the object and subject mixed up due to being unfamiliar with the passive construction]

    2. The citizens are pursuing the hairy elephant through the streets of the town.

    II. Ciues elephantum hirsutum per uicos oppidi secuti. [passive form of the deponent?]

    3. General, the swift soldiers have often been bitten by the stupid centurion in the
    mountains.

    III. Dux, milites celeres a stulto centorione saepe morsus esse(?) in montibus.

    4. The unlucky consul lingered in the temple yesterday.

    IV. Heri, consul infelix in templo morabatur. [or] Heri, consules infelicis in templo moratus sunt.

    5. At the fourth hour, the cruel lanista was wounded with a sword by Spartacus in
    Capua.

    V. Quarta hora, lanista crudelis(?) a spartaco(us?) gladio uulneratus est capuae.

    How should Spartacus be declined here? It's a 2nd declension male noun, but it's also a proper-noun, so I'm not sure if it changes form here like it would for 'elephanto' or 'libro' would for the ablative/dative forms.
    ____

    Yes, I forgot about the Locative, only remembering that it was archaic by the time of classical Latin and almost never used except for proper nouns.
    I just used the accusative as sentences like 'elephantum Romam agit' or 'equos Athenas ducit' seemed to work fine.
    I suppose the distinction is the locative-case indicates fixed position within an area, rather than going to or coming from an area.
  4. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
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    You didn't fix what I mentioned with "feroxibus" yet.
    That should be interficietur. You were right about the "i" after the c in your first try.

    That should be present tense. sequentur was closer, that's future tense, you just need to change one little thing.

    Closer. However "morsus -a -um" has to agree with the subject, so i this case it would be "morsi". You actually had that form right in your first attempt. Also, the form of "sum" has to be the right person and number.

    I don't know why you changed "consul infelix", which is correct, to "consules infelicis" in your second version, which is incorrect. "sunt" does not agree, because "consul infelix" is singular.

    Yes. Proper nouns decline just like any other nouns.

    Yes, the accusative with cities/towns, etc. is used for motion towards. The ablative is used for coming away from.
  5. Elagabalus Iuniore New Member

    Thanks for your feedback. Here's another attempt.

    I. Agricola malus a feroxibus virginibus interfecietur.

    [1. My textbook does not give any appropriate words other than 'ferox', and I don't trust Google-translate, so you'll have to supply me the word for this one.]

    II. Ciues elephantum hirsutum per uicos oppidi sequantur.

    [2. I think this one is fine?]


    III. Dux, milites celeres a stulto centorione saepe morsi erant in montibus.



    [3. Am I correct in placing 'erant' referring to 'milites' and not 'erat' referring to 'centurione'?]

    IV. Heri, consul infelix in templo morabatur.

    [4. I was testing before the plural form of 'Consul/Consules' to check if I understood the tense correctly. Not sure about this still.]

    V. Quarta hora, lanista crudelis a spartaco gladio uulneratus est capuae.


    [5. I think this one is fine?]
  6. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    I never said ferox is the worng word, I just said "feroxibus" is incorrectly formed.

    How do you form the present tense of a 3rd-conjugation verb? It's not with the letter a.


    "morsi erant" means "had been bitten" – the pluperfect tense. The perfect tense is formed from the 4th principal part (morsi – you have that correct), and a form of the present tense of sum.

    Singular of both versions: Heri, consul infelix in templo morabatur
    Heri, consul infelix in templo moratus est
    Making it plural:
    Heri, consules infelices in templo morabantur
    Heri, consules infelices in templo morati sunt

    Yes it is.
  7. Elagabalus Iuniore New Member

    I. [In that case I'm not sure how else to form this adjective, as ferox is a single-gender adjective, and as a 3rd-declension-type in the ablative-plural, the final suffix should be [ingent/-ibus. I'm assuming the error is with changing the 'x' in the stem?
    [edit: ferocibus?]

    II. ...sequintor?

    [considering the 'i' in rego/regis/regit or dico/dicis/dicit]

    III. ...morsi sunt?

    [3rd person-singular present form of sum]
  8. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    1. Yes, ferocibus.

    2. Try this: fully conjugate rego in the present tense – see what happens in the third person plural.

    3. Yes.

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