Please catch six more.

By LenCabral, in 'English to Latin Translation', Mar 6, 2019.

  1. LenCabral Member

    Location:
    Newark DE
    Hi everyone,

    I'm wondering if "more" in an example like this can be used as a substantive that is directly modified by a numeral. I can't seem to find examples of it.

    (amabo te) / (te obsecro) capere sex plures.

    Does this work?
  2. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    - I think you can do that if the noun "plures" refers to is stated in a previous sentence. It wouldn't make sense otherwise, though, just like the English "please catch six more" doesn't make much sense as a stand-alone sentence.

    - I think the infinitive of capere doesn't work here.
    You can either treat it as a dependent final clause (with obsecro te) and write obsecro te ut sex capias plures
    Or you can treat the "please" as some kind of insertion, but then you would use the imperative: cape, te amabo, sex plures
  3. LenCabral Member

    Location:
    Newark DE
    Thanks! I thought "obsecro" could take infinitives though, similar to "beseech" in English. I beseech you to catch six more, etc. I like the infinitive idea though, in the sense that it matches the English closely!
  4. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena

    I would say the general rule is (on some cognitive linguistic level):
    - infinitive constructions indicate some kind of (indirect) statement
    - ut/ne constructions indicate a command or final statement

    Confer, for example:
    Vide me pilam capere -- Watch me catch the ball!
    Vide ut pilam capiam -- See to it (make sure) that I catch the ball!

    Some verbs already have the "command" idea inbuilt, which is why they work with infintives, like
    iubeo te pilam capere! -- I order you to catch the ball

    but even there, the infinitive is not universal ... if you use imperare (which also contains the idea of ordering), you suddenly have to use ut again (at least in classical Latin):
    tibi impero ut pilam capias -- I order you to catch the ball
    Last edited by Bitmap, Mar 6, 2019
  5. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    What noun are we understanding with sex plures? I would've thought the neuter would be the default, if anything. Obsecro te ut sex capias plures on its own sounds like you're entreating someone to catch six more people.
  6. LenCabral Member

    Location:
    Newark DE
    Chickens :)
  7. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Hmm. I wonder if that will be understood with the word implied. I suppose if it's an in-joke, it doesn't really matter, though.
  8. LenCabral Member

    Location:
    Newark DE
    The full context is "I lost my chickens! Please catch six more!" I just wanted to ask the part I wasn't sure about.
  9. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Ah, I see. Got it.
  10. syntaxianus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    "More" here means "in addition, further." I would think plures is not right, unless you are saying "six more than x." More natural Latin might be:

    cape, sodes, senos amplius.

    Catch, if you please, (a group of) six more.
  11. LenCabral Member

    Location:
    Newark DE
    Why is "plures" bad here? I would assume that the sentence "Please catch six more" (cape, amabo te, sex plures) would be more or less logically equivalent to "Please catch six more than you have caught."
  12. syntaxianus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    If such is the usage, fine. I hear an ambiguity there: You caught 10. Now catch 6 more than that number, that is, 16. To say 6 in addition to the 10, amplius, removes that ambiguity.
  13. syntaxianus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Though these are not closely parallel to the OP's example, I thought it might be instructive to look for a few examples of the usage of amplius. The first one also uses pluris (=plures). Perhaps no. 2 is most relevant.

    1. Sallust, B.I., 80.6.1 :

    verum ea necessitudo apud Numidas Maurosque levis ducitur, quia singuli pro opibus quisque quam plurumas uxores, denas alii, alii pluris habent, sed reges eo amplius.

    But such a tie is taken lightly among the Numidians and Moors because individuals have as many wives as their means permit—some as many as ten, others more, and kings a still greater number. (Loeb trans.)

    2. Pliny, Nat. Hist. 8.133.1

    Praeparant hiemi et irenacei cibos ac volutati supra iacentia poma adfixa spinis, unum amplius tenentes ore, portant in cavas arbores.

    Hedgehogs also prepare food for winter, and fixing fallen apples on their spines by rolling on them and holding one more in their mouth carry them to hollow trees. (Loeb)

    3. Livy, AUC 36.38.3

    duas amplius horas dubium certamen sustinuere;

    and for more than two hours they kept the outcome of the battle in doubt. (Loeb)

    4. Livy, AUC 37.24.6

    Cum in alto, ubi substiterant, cibo reficerent vires, contemplatus Eudamus hostes claudas mutilatasque naves apertis navibus remulco trahentes, viginti paulo amplius integras abscedentes,

    While they were rebuilding their strength with food where they had stopped on the open sea, Eudamus watched the enemy hauling their disabled and damaged vessels with tow ropes from open-decked ships, not many more than twenty moving off unharmed. (Loeb)

    -----
  14. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    But in several of these examples, amplius + a number means "more than ___" (both 3. and 4.), which isn't what we want here.
  15. syntaxianus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA

    Sane quidem. Just showing a bit of the usage of amplius.

    I find it important to point out that duas amplius horas here does not mean "two hours more."

Share This Page

 

Our Latin forum is a community for discussion of all topics relating to Latin language, ancient and medieval world.

Latin Boards on this Forum:

English to Latin, Latin to English translation, general Latin language, Latin grammar, Latine loquere, ancient and medieval world links.