Probitas Verces Honos

By cheynetrain, in 'Latin to English Translation', May 2, 2019.

  1. cheynetrain New Member

    Hi there,
    Thanks in advance for your help on this, I hope I'm able to find someone with this knowledge!

    When my grandfather passed, we found a "coat of arms" or family crest on a plate with the Latin phrase "Probitas Verces Honos" on it. I already know the translation of this would be something along the lines of "Integrity (or Honesty) is true honor."

    My questions is about the word "Verces." When looking up this phrase, I often see "Verus" used, and I know about the word "Veritas" but maybe that has to do with the noun "truth" versus the adjective "true."

    So is "Verces" the correct word here? Should it be "Verus?" I've never seen any other use of the word "Verces" so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me!

    Thanks so much.

    Attached Files:

  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Hi,

    Verces isn't a word as far as I know. I'm pretty sure it should be verus.
  3. cheynetrain New Member

    Thanks Pacifica. That's the impression I'm getting... it would be nice to get some confirmation. I'm curious where it came from and how "verces" was even put there to begin with.
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'm guessing a misreading or misprint happened at some point. "Ce" for "u" isn't unlike the kind of mistakes often found in electronic scans of texts.
  5. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    It looks like it isn't the only coat of arms with that motto, as after a quick search I can find a few.
  6. cheynetrain New Member

    Hey Laurentius, with verces or verus? I've seen it also but always with verus. I'm convinced verces isn't a word.
  7. Hemo Rusticus One Slick Hombre

    • Civis Illustris
    An adjective (uerus) doesn't seem likely, given the two nouns (one of which, honos, hints at a modicum of understanding of the language). I think merces is a good fit (for a typo, that is), if it's understood a tad un-Classically/etymologically as 'mercy'.

    'Rectitude, Mercy, Honor', hey?
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I suppose that's possible, but I can't see anything so unlikely about probitas verus honos (sc. est). Plus, it actually returns Google hits while probitas merces honos doesn't and also requires, by your own confession, an unusual interpretation of merces. Unless you choose actually to take it in its usual meaning of "reward" or "wages".

    I'm, say, 95% sure that probitas verus honos was the original phrase.
  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
  10. Issacus Divus Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Gæmleflodland
    Maybe you should have merces with these responses.

    Back to being serious, the one thing left in my mind is this adjective paired with two nouns.
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    It isn't paired with two nouns. It is paired with one noun: honos. Probitas verus honos (est) = "Integrity is true honor." It isn't unusual for est to be left implied, especially in mottoes. There's nothing weird here.
    Issacus Divus likes this.
  12. Issacus Divus Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Gæmleflodland
    :brickwall2:

    Man, I'm sleepy.
  13. cheynetrain New Member

    Hey everyone - really appreciate your help on this one.
    I'm going with Probitas Verus Honos. Especially with the Google hits on this phrase and nothing returning with Verces or Merces, I agree with Pacifica.
    Laurentius likes this.

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