1. In chapter XVIII of LLPSI, the author pronounces the word 'zephyrus' with [f] sound instead of [pʰ] (or [ph]). If he is using Classical pronunciation, why is that? And how 'ph' should be pronounced, or was pronounced depending on the historical period?
  2. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    Well, this is contentious, because it's a Greek word even in Latin (a foreign word to the native Latin phonology).

    Historically in archaic and younger Latin the Romans would automatically accept the words with an unaspirated simple "p" sound (ἀμφορεύς or similar became ampulla), later on they would accept the "ph" words with "ph" but in the classical (and later) Latin probably only the upper class educated in Greek would pronounce it as an aspirated "ph" (at the times when the contemporary Greeks would do so somewhere too), the others would treat it as "f" (the word I mentioned was accepted to Latin again as "amphora" with a different meaning). And since we learn the upper class Latin, it's not wrong for you if you pronounce it as "ph" too, but nobody will tear your head off if you do it as "f"...
    Last edited by Godmy, Jun 6, 2018
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  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    That made me laugh, literally, Godmy.

    Thanks for the reassurance; that's a relief!
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  4. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    I know! :guitar:
  5. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    The same goes for that "y"as well (not mentioning the famous Latin potential "middle-vowel" in optimus, documentum.... etc.)
  6. Iohannes Aurum Technicus Auxiliarius

    • Technicus Auxiliarius
    Likewise, theta originally made a hard "t" sound.
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  7. Could you please elaborate on what you said about 'y'. And what is the Latin potential "middle-vowel"?
  8. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    Are you able make a recording of some words with ph in them for us Godmy?
  9. Iáson Cívis Illústris

    • Civis Illustris
    y represents Greek υ and more educated Romans may well have pronounced it as a front rounded vowel /y/ rather than the Latin back rounded /u/, or Latin /i/.
    The 'sonus medius' is a vowel somewhere between u, i and is spelt as either - hence 'optumus' and 'optimus' are both found. It is possible that the emperor Claudius unsuccessfully attempted to introduce the letter Ⱶ for this sound.
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  10. Since the 'u' sound is rounded and the 'i' sound is not, was 'sonus medius' halfway on this aspect as well?
  11. Godmy A Monkey

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Bohemia
    I currently don't have much time to spend on the forum, I will get back to it/everything later.
  12. Iáson Cívis Illústris

    • Civis Illustris
    Its exact realisation is uncertain, and debated. I think Allen (p59) suggests that it was a front rounded vowel, but more open than Greek υ.

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