Propterea captivus ductus est populus

By Rocit, in 'Latin to English Translation', Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Rocit Member

    [IMG][/URL][/IMG]That's some total s**t, guys, I can't make anything of it and I seriously need your help and advice!!!
    Propterea captivus ductus est populus.

    That's why people are a guided prisoner.


    Heu volucres nimium petulanti in pectore sensus,
    Frivola cum veris utiliora putant.
    Futilibus solida haut capitur sapientia nugis:
    Nec pictis dapibus pellitur esuries.

    Alas, too playful and fleeting are the senses in breast,
    They are considered to be more useful frivola cum veris.
    The firm wisdom isn't comprehended by frivolous chatterers:
    And the hunger isn't quenched by exquisite meals.

    HOW IS THIS CONNECTED WITH THE TITLE???

    Elixis epulis, assisque accumbere, divum
    Quod potuit vesci nectare et Ambrosia?
    Prospicit elleboro caput insanabile: pictas
    Res neque secernit fabulam ab historia.

    Who, except god, could eat boiled and unalloyed meals,
    Nectar and ambrosia?
    Incurable head prepares the emetic for itself:
    ???

    I'm so lost, guys! I'd be very grateful if you could help!
  2. Victus Member

    Location:
    Brazil
    As far as I understood, that phrase is "They are considered to be more frivolously useful when it is spring"

    And the second phrase, I believe is along the lines of "Yet matters feast on the story made from history," which I believe is more loosely translated as "History is made into false fiction," although you must remember I'm not sure. This is as far as I understood, but I could be completely wrong. Wait for a more experienced person to answer before you jot that down.
  3. Aurifex Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Location:
    England
    It's not difficult to discover that "Propterea captivus ductus est populus" is a quote from Isaiah 5: 13, and that the passage it is taken from deals with similar themes to those that form the subject of these elegiacs.
  4. Rocit Member

    Thank you very much for your notes, guys!

    Now I'm pretty certain about the title, but still confused about these two problematic lines...
  5. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Heu volucres nimium petulanti in pectore sensus,
    Frivola cum veris utiliora putant.
    Futilibus solida haut capitur sapientia nugis:
    Nec pictis dapibus pellitur esuries.

    Alas, fleeting senses in a too insolent heart,
    when they think that frivolous things are more useful than the true ones.
    One doesn't acquire wisdom with futile nonsense,
    nor is hunger driven away by painted banquets.

    Elixis epulis, assisque accumbere, divum
    Quod potuit vesci nectare et Ambrosia?
    Prospicit elleboro caput insanabile: pictas
    Res neque secernit fabulam ab historia.

    That the gods should sit at (a table with) boiled and roasted dishes,
    who could have fed on the nectar and ambrosia? (Not sure about the quod, if divum goes with it or if it's something else. "The nectar and ambrosia of the Gods" would make much sense, but then what is quod? "That that which could have fed on the nectar and ambrosia of the gods should sit..."? )
    He sees a head that can't be healed with hellebore (or maybe "that his head can't be healed..." if there was a picture next to the text it could help for the right interpretation):
    He can't differenciate painted things or the fable from history.
    Last edited by Pacis puella, Apr 14, 2014
  6. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    Maybe:
    "A incurable head can see with hellebore: it distinguishes painted things, but can't distinguish a fable from history."
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    What if : should actually not be there? It would be "A head incurable with hellebore sees painted things and does not distinguish the fable from history". This seems to make the most sense.
  8. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    It was my first thought actually, but I think he copies it from the actual thing, so maybe it is not very likely. Btw do you mean "incurable with ellebore, sees painted..." or "incurable, with ellebore sees..."?
  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, typos happen. Let's wait for what he says (and if we could see the image it would be even better).
    I mean "Incurable with/for hellebore" = that can't be cured with hellebore.
  10. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    I am unable to open the image.:(
  11. Laurentius Man of Culture

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Antium
    Could it also be that this incurable head can see thanks to hellebore? About the "quod" I was thinking that maybe it is a typo for "qui". We wait for the picture.
  12. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I suppose it's possible, but it's not what first comes to my mind.
    If this is from the same book as the "geto" thread, the book itself isn't devoid of typos...
  13. Victus Member

    Location:
    Brazil
    That'd make for one hell of a marketing campaign. "See again, thanks to HELLEBORE! Warning: May cause you to not be able to distinguish fable from history. ORDER NOW!"

    But looking at the text as a literary article, I must say it makes the most literary sense for it to be that Hellebore allows him to see but not distinguish, as it gives that always present medieval theme of the carnal failing while the divine is unbeatable. But now I'm just discussing literature instead of actually helping.

    But going on a tangent bender here, you could also argue that it is "His incurable ('addicted') head with hellebore (possibly a drug?) sees images of things that he cannot differentiate from fiction and real"

    But that's just speculation. Will await on the picture also so I can continue to be of no help whatsoever.

    EDIT: Maybe this'll be of some help?
  14. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    The punctuation is really screwy. In addition to the seeming misplacement of the colon, the question mark doesn't feel right either: I really don't see how the sentence with quod can be interrogative at all. It makes far more sense if we take it as a relative clause that happens to precede its antecedent caput.
  15. Rocit Member

    [IMG][IMG]Yes, there certainly may be the "typos" in the book...
    [IMG][IMG]
  16. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Hellebore supposedly cured mental illness, so I don't think it has anything to do with drug dependency.
  17. Victus Member

    Location:
    Brazil
    What's really getting me weirded out (and I may just be an idiot, never rule out that possibility) is that caput is in the nominative, but insanabile is in the ablative. And elleboro is either in the dative or ablative. The whole sentence, to me, looks a bit weird. But pictas is definitely the accusative.
  18. Rocit Member

    What gets me weirded out, is how do these two relate to the title from Isaiah?
    If someone got it, please, let me know what you think :)
  19. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    Insanabile is actually neuter nominative. The ablative would be insanabili. I imagine elleboro is dative with insanabile, though it could also be ablative, as Laurentius took it, to indicate means with the verb prospicit.
    The preceding verses give a fuller picture. The shared theme seems to be the condemnation of drunkenness and gluttony.
    Last edited by Imber Ranae, Apr 14, 2014
  20. Aurifex Aedilis

    • Aedilis
    Location:
    England
    Rocit, you'd be doing everyone a favour, yourself most of all, if you just let the monkey see the rabbit. (See p.179)

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