Stilistic device I can't remember

By Bitmap, in 'General Latin Chat (English)', Apr 29, 2019.

  1. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    I can't remember what you call it when a sentence starts with a subject word that belongs to both the main clause and the subordinate clause (as is usual in classical Latin), e.g.

    Cic. fin. 62,6 (I think)
    dolores autem si qui incurrunt, numquam vim tantam habent, ut non plus habeat sapiens, quod gaudeat, quam quod angatur.

    dolores belongs to both the conditional and the main clause. I forgot what you call that. Apo koinu? Or is there a name of its own for that?
  2. Issacus Divus Well-Known Member

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    It seems to fit under Apo koinu, but I'll search a bit and gyve you some results.

    Ellipse. ( I wager.)
    Screen Shot 2019-04-29 at 8.42.59 AM.png

    Maybe it's something else?
    I'm not really *well-grounded for this particular subject, but I'm willing to keep searching.




    *Like, not too well-read on these devoices, although I remember Apo koinu.
  3. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    Well, the second word (or its replacement by a pronoun) is kind of elliptic, but since the first word is still there, calling it an ellipse is not really satisfying. I'm currently doubting myself whether I just forgot the word for it, or whether I always just called it apo koin(o)u.

    Btw. ellipse and apo koinu are two different things ... don't know where you have that definition from.
  4. Issacus Divus Well-Known Member

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  5. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    An ellipse simply means to leave out a word. Often it's about leaving out very a obvious word like "est" ...
    an example I came across today: "Optime vero Epicurus, quod exiguam dixit fortunam intervenire sapienti (...)" Cic. fin. 63,1 -- something like 'agit' is missing behind Epicurus -- that's an elipse.

    Apo koinou means that one word can relate to multiple different words.
    Hor. C. 1, 5, 6 heu quoties fidem mutatosque deos flebit --> mutata / mutati are both, the fides and the dei

    I suppose if you can extend apo koinou to the sentence level, then this construction is just an apo koinou.
    Last edited by Bitmap, Apr 29, 2019
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  6. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    I've never heard of any name for this device.
  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    I never knew that. I called both "ellipsis".
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  8. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    Indeed, I've never heard of apo koinou.
  9. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    Cygnea, Gena

    I can only refer German terminology to you of course. It could be possible that English does it differently; but the concept of apo koinou seems very important to me especially in cases where you can't just call a phenomenon 'eliptic' as well (in the Horace example you could more or less make that case).

    Take this sentence from Cic. am. 3, 11:

    <Scipio> duabus urbibus eversis inimicissimis huic imperio non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit.

    ... and insert commata

    is it
    duabus urbibus eversis, inimicissimis huic imperio, non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit. --- with the dative being dependent on inimicissimis

    or is it
    duabus urbibus eversis inimicissimis, huic imperio non modo praesentia verum etiam futura bella delevit. --- with the dative being a dativus commodi (dative of reference? or what do you call it?)

    It's not unlikely that the author had both options in mind, that both are equally valid and that both are actually supposed to be implied... in which case huic imperio stands apo koinou.
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    Actually, that sort of Greek, Latin, or Greek- or Latin-derived terminology often means the same thing across languages, though there can be exceptions, like one language preferring a Greek(-derived) or Latin(-derived) term while another will have a native one, I suppose.

    Anyway, this one is indeed used in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apo_koinou_construction
  11. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    Cygnea, Gena
  12. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    oh, I have seen that article before. I forgot about that.
  13. AoM nulli numeri

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    Yeah, I remember this (possible) one from Aeneid 6.

  14. Hemo Rusticus Tom Bombadillo

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    It sounds to my like what I imagine (but don't know) 'syllepsis' meant classically. Just trying to think of a word near enough in sound to 'ellipsis' that the mind would confuse them.
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  15. Hemo Rusticus Tom Bombadillo

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    Also 'zeugma', but both of these I only know in the context of Anglicus Modernus.
  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

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    Belgium
  17. Bitmap Civis Illustris

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    Thank you for that suggestion. That seems to make some sense.



    Well, stylistic devices seem to be a rather vague issue sometimes. You find varying definitions and even varying term, not only across different languages, but even in one and the same language. I looked at some German sources on the internet for "syllepsis", and some of them simply conflate it with the term "zeugma". A zeugma is something different to me, though, at least in the definition I would use. A zeugma also means to use a single word that pertains to more than one sentence (or parts of a sentence), but usually in different meanings of the verb. E.g. "I have a bus and driven a car" - one time 'have' is a full verb, the second time it is an auxiliary ... or with phrasal verbs like "he put on his earphones and up with the noise" -- zeugmata usually sound a bit strange.


    I find the sample sentence from Vergil a bit wanting, though. I usually simply took "hic illius arma" as a simple ellipsis, especially since it is in a different verse than "hic currus fuit" ... at least it's a bit ambiguous, but ok, I get what they mean.
  18. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

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    When he asked, 'What in heaven?' she made no reply, up her mind, and a dash to the door.
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  19. Dantius Homo Sapiens

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    In the States Certamen last weekend there was a question "What literary device is found in the line 'She saw thunder and lightning'?". They were looking for zeugma, since "saw" does not strictly pertain to "thunder" (cf. manus ac supplices voces ad Tiberium tendens from Tacitus, which Gildersleeve gives as an example for zeugma). I suppose you could also argue hysteron proteron, since the lightning should come before the thunder. I don't think it's a great example of a zeugma, but whatever.
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  20. Hemo Rusticus Tom Bombadillo

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    Yeah, that's a tad thin, in that 'seeing thunder' isn't a figure of speech but just evidence of the clumsiness of language. We call coats 'warm' where we really mean 'well-insulating' or something like that (but then, there's probably some term for that also).

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