To think in Latin

By meisenimverbis, in 'Speaking Latin', Jun 16, 2019.

  1. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    English, like Portuguese and the Romance languages in general, make noun + verb + noun (object). Whenever I'm trying to think/speak something in Latin, this is the first thing that goes wrong (and therefore, imediately makes things to slow down and feel weird, not natural).

    I like apples
    amo... (damn, the apples should have come first!) I mean, poma amo

    Thought in Portuguese (as in English) goes "I love", or "the boy sees..." which would be "I apples", or "the boy the dog..." in Latin. I've been trying to think like this, but it isn't easy for me.

    Do you people have any thoughts on the matter?
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I think it's just a matter of habit. It's normal, in the beginning, for your thought to default to the order that's used in your native language or another language that you're fluent in. But once you've acquired some practice reading and using Latin you'll get a feel for Latin word order.

    There's actually nothing wrong with the order amo poma. Latin word order is fairly flexible, which, I suppose, makes it more difficult in a way because there are so few clear-cut rules (it's mostly more a matter of feeling what's appropriate in a given context — and there will often be more than one correct option anyway).

    Note, however, that pomum is any piece of fruit, not necessarly an apple. An apple is malum.
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  3. Quasus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Coimbra, Portugal
    I wonder if amo is the right verb. Forcellini says, it’s ‘præcipue de abstractis, quibus homines delectantur, quarumve studiosi sunt’, vox being perhaps the most concrete of his examples.
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  4. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Deligo, maybe. :think: I thought of placeo, but I needed something with an accusative to make my point.
  5. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Yes, it's true that amo, while not really wrong here, is most often used with either a person or something a bit more abstract as an object. The most common way, or at least one of the most common ways, of putting it would be pomis delector, perhaps. Which, of course, doesn't involve an accusative.

    Deligo means "I choose". I think you meant diligo, but it's pretty much like amo in terms of the kind of object it takes.
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  6. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    I meant diligo! :D
  7. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    If you are able to think in a language, you will have instincts as to what is right to say and what isn't.
  8. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena
    miror quibus aenigmatibus vos sitis locuti ... nonne hoc forum ad sermonem Latinum, qui Latine habeatur, destinatumst?
  9. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    If you're lucky. Every language had its tone-deaf speakers, and contrary to what received linguistic opinion would have us believe, this isn't only confined to written language.
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Immo vero illud forum quod "nil nisi Latine" inscribitur ad sermonem Latinum destinatum est. Hoc autem in quo sumus olim erat ei rei destinatum, sed status rerum mutatus est. Nunc hoc forum ad Anglicum de sermone Latino sermonem destinatum est. :D
    Bitmap likes this.
  11. Cinefactus Censor

    • Censor
    Location:
    litore aureo
    I think the instincts come from hearing or reading something repeatedly.
  12. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Two differences between my learning of English and Latin. (1) Age. I've learnt English at an earlier age. Though, the most important, I think, is (2) coaching style of teaching (vs. basically having to teach yourself). When you are a teenager in a foreign language course, you have classes twice or even thrice a week, with teachers who use that language with you, make you use it, and you are forced to study to exams; learning Latin at university was a completely different situation: for one, my teachers never spoke Latin... There were exams, but the goal, I can say, wasn't language acquisition. I had, from the beginning, to teach myself, and I can see that I am not efficient with it.
  13. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Maybe (3) exposition. There's a lot of material for learning English. For years I've been trying to find a Latin-Latin dictionary, and although it is possible to find online, I miss it in printed format. Also most of the things I (easily) find and listen to in the internet are in English. I've been trying to find (interesting) videos in Latin on youtube, and there is just the one guy, and he posts sparsely... I miss these two items (dictionary and videos).
  14. Bitmap Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Cygnea, Gena

    ego quoque iam adultus Latine didici in universitate. nonne apparet in linguis discendis necesse esse ut in primis tute ipse studio sermonis operam des? magistri vel doctores tibi aliquantulum auxilii ferre possint; nequeunt autem scientam rerum quadam magica arte in caput ac mentem tuam transferre. doctores mei, sicut tui, numquam Latine locuti sunt. Plurima quae scio non sole nitente e vivis magistris in hilari ludo universitatis, sed multam ad noctem pervigilans in solitariis umbraculis ex inanimis libris percepi – quale decet studium esse linguarum mortuarum :D
    nec queri fas est deesse materiam ad Latine discendum aptam. plurimos textus Latinos in interrete habes quos legere possis. si tua scribere Latine interest, vel vera voce etiam loqui, hoc in foro invenies quibuscum scribere seu loqui possis. quin in hoc ipso foro, quod "Latine loquendi" appellatur, initium facis Latine scribendi? ;)
    Last edited by Bitmap, Jun 24, 2019
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  15. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    I found that the more I read the more easily I was able to think in the Latin word order and construct sentences quickly.
    Bitmap likes this.
  16. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    (Bisne huic placere possum responsae? :) )


    Si multas ut hanc tuam habuissem interactiones locutus esse credo... (Si certum sit tempus nescio...)

    Nexum videbo.
  17. meisenimverbis Active Member

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro

    There are a lot of English coachs on youtube, and one common piece of advice all of them at some point give is: "try to think in English". Which makes sense. I'm not (yet) used to think in Latin. I need to try and practice more... Interaction with people who do helps, I believe. (I need influences, examples...)
Tags: word order

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